Featured Ex-Calvinism (Why I am no longer a Calvinist)

I am saying mankind was under the law of sin and death, that the wages of sin is death. I am saying Christ freed us from this bondage by bearing our sins in His flesh and becoming a curse for us, becoming a life giving Spirit.

The punishment think is your theology to defend, not mine.

 

A biblical case has not been made to presuppose the Calvinistic judicial philosophy. That was my only objection. People asked questions about my view, but that one position has not been defended biblically.

That is the problem (historically) with discussing this topic. Some people will respond with insults, others will pick apart minor statements and topics, while others will defend ideas not even being argued. But no one will address the reason it is necessary to presuppose divine justice demands that sins be punished so that they can be forgiven.

 

There is punishment. In terms of sin (apart from considering the work of Christ) the wages of sin is death. But when we consider the Cross we also have to consider that all judgment has been given to the Son. The punishment "on that day" is God's wrath against the wicked. We are delivered from the "wrath to come" in Christ. Those not "in Christ" remain in their sin and are condemned.

One issue is "penalty" and "punishment" are not synonyms. Another is I view this issue in context of a Covenant. Mankind was under the law of sin and death. Those in Christ are given eternal life. Those not will remain in their sins and suffer condemnation as death and hades are cast into the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

A problem that we run into on these types of discussions is very often arguing against one point causes people to make conclusions that may not be true about one's position itself. I think @Reformed came to a few of these conclusions regarding my statements about "foreknowing". I was not declaring a view I hold but stating that there are at least two views of the term. So as not to cloud the issue I should probably simply stick to the facts - that is that I left Calvinism because I did not see the philosophy of justice Calvinism bases redemption upon to be biblically sound. Other things are of course affected by this conclusion, but this is the root cause.

It would be better to discuss aspects of what I do believe on a thread appropriate to that topic. I think it would help prevent false assumptions and people grasping at an amalgamation of ideas that may not be reflective of my beliefs.

 

Yep. There is only one way to the Father, and that is Christ.

 

But none of those passages address my objection.

They are verses we both affirm and I even referenced earlier on this thread supporting my view.

 

Nope. They do teach that.

 

I agree, Christ suffered and died. I believe this was under the "curse", the law of sin and death, in order to free us from its bondage and give us life.

It was not instead of us as we also suffer and die physically.

I am not sure it can be viewed as "punishment", although it is a penalty.

For example, the penalty one will suffer for overindulgence in alcohol is a hangover. The penalty for gluttony is obesity. I am not confident these can be called punishments (but perhaps it's just my understanding of punishment).

 

It is not up to me to prove (I gave up Calvinism years ago). If Calvinists do not teach this then they are not Christian at all.

The burden of proof is on you.

Prove Calvinists teach multiple ways to the Father.

 

Yep. Saying I am not a Calvinist.

Calvinists are Christians. They believe Christ is the only way. I am not going to prove it to you. You do not have to believe Calvinists to be Christian.

 

Then to answer your question, the proof is Calvinists believe those who are elected are elected to Christ (the Father gives them to Christ). As I said, they don't teach another way but Christ.