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What doctrines are essential to the new birth?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Benyamin, Feb 4, 2020.

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  1. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    And yet, here am I, still waiting for the requested verses, while having provided a few.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The premise of this Opening Post question is that a person must believe the "right" things to be saved. For example, to be saved a person must believe in eternal security, or limited atonement, or universalism. This premise is bogus. We are to believe "into Him!" That means we put our faith and devotion in and toward Christ Jesus. Now it is God alone who either credits our faith (and He knows our heart) or not. A person could hold the correct view of all the gospel doctrines, be not willing to give up worldly treasures, and Jesus will say 'I never knew you." OTOH, some unstudied rube could commit fully to Christ, and do his best to serve his Lord, and God would credit that faith as righteousness, without knowing about eternal security.
     
  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You must be born again before you can believe. So no doctrines are necessary before the New Birth.
     
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  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    How can an individual be chosen through (or on the basis of) faith in the truth, if they unable to put their faith in the truth? So Calvinism must nullify 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

    Every time you see saved by grace through faith, that means their faith preceded being saved by grace. Our faith provides our access to the grace in which we stand. Romans 5:2
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Habakkuk 2"4, reaffirmed in Romans 1:17, and Galatians 3:11
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God gives to his own in Christ that faith, so we get no credit for saving faith!
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    you must still hear the Gospel though....
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Lost sinner, natural man, must have God enable them to be able to believe in Jesus first!
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Opening pushing logical impossibilities is utter nonsense. Since an individual is chosen through or on the basis of faith, they cannot be given faith after being chosen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Matthew 23:13 precludes the utter nonsense being spewed here. The lost sinners, the natural men were entering the kingdom so they had spiritual ability. Full Stop
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Election and regeneration before faith in Christ!
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You misunderstand that passage!
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once again an unbiblical claim. No verse or passage supports this utter nonsense. We are chosen for salvation on the basis of faith, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
     
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  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Just read the verse. Matthew 23:13 precludes the utter nonsense being spewed here. The lost sinners, the natural men were entering the kingdom so they had spiritual ability. Full Stop
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Check Romans 8, Apostle paul would disagree with you on this!
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    if true, paul and Jesus disagreed with each other on this!
     
  17. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    That's backwards. It'll always be backwards.
    Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


    No matter how much philosophy you pump into the Bible, your order will remain backwards. You know it, deep inside, you know it. You know you're flying in the face of countless Bible verses/truths.

    It's not just backwards, it's blasphemous, because it has you elect and ultimately saved not because of Jesus Christ. You were already elect outside of Christ, then God simply put you in him to take you to heaven. Christ is the means of your salvation, not the cause. He's just your taxi driver.

    Born again to believe...what a mess...
     
    #77 George Antonios, Feb 7, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
  18. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    As applied of Paul to the church age, not the O.T. for Paul himself told you that the law is not of faith.
    Also, you either forgot or ignored this quote of Habakkuk 2:4
    Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
    Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

    The context is the tribulation, where the dispensational setting will once again be a legal setting, and Habakkuk 2:4 will once again operate as it did under the law: that if you draw back, you can lose your salvation because there will be an element of works to salvation during the tribulation just as there was one under the law - like the Bible says over, and over, over again.
    Eternal security is only true during the church age. Ask Saul.
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Eternal life is same under either old or new Covenants, as the basis is still the stay , the Cross of Christ, received thru faith alone!
     
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Only the born again received him.
     
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