What doctrines are essential to the new birth?

[George Antonios]

That is old time Scofield dispy theology, but not in the Bible!

And yet, here am I, still waiting for the requested verses, while having provided a few.

 

[Van]

I'm sure we're all familiar with it. Statements like "Belief in Eternal Security is necessary to be saved, because otherwise you have a faulty view of true justification". What are your thoughts on this?

In my opinion, when most people repent, and call out to God for salvation, they aren't necessarily thinking at the time about eternal security. In my own experience, at the time of my salvation, I repented and called out to God out of a contrite heart, asking for His forgiveness and salvation. Neither the doctrine of eternal security, nor the thought that at some point I might stray from God, ever crossed my mind during my calling out to God. I'm assuming this is the same for most.

Someone in my church had mentioned, that he does not believe folks that do not believe in eternal security are truly born again. (For example, Mennonites).

What are your thoughts? Is not believing in eternal security the same as believing in a faith+works salvation?

Personally, I believe the Mennonite friends I have are no less born again than I am. I think people will be surprised in heaven, at who "made it", and who didn't. "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion".

The premise of this Opening Post question is that a person must believe the "right" things to be saved. For example, to be saved a person must believe in eternal security, or limited atonement, or universalism. This premise is bogus. We are to believe "into Him!" That means we put our faith and devotion in and toward Christ Jesus. Now it is God alone who either credits our faith (and He knows our heart) or not. A person could hold the correct view of all the gospel doctrines, be not willing to give up worldly treasures, and Jesus will say 'I never knew you." OTOH, some unstudied rube could commit fully to Christ, and do his best to serve his Lord, and God would credit that faith as righteousness, without knowing about eternal security.

 

[1689Dave]

I'm sure we're all familiar with it. Statements like "Belief in Eternal Security is necessary to be saved, because otherwise you have a faulty view of true justification". What are your thoughts on this?

In my opinion, when most people repent, and call out to God for salvation, they aren't necessarily thinking at the time about eternal security. In my own experience, at the time of my salvation, I repented and called out to God out of a contrite heart, asking for His forgiveness and salvation. Neither the doctrine of eternal security, nor the thought that at some point I might stray from God, ever crossed my mind during my calling out to God. I'm assuming this is the same for most.

Someone in my church had mentioned, that he does not believe folks that do not believe in eternal security are truly born again. (For example, Mennonites).

What are your thoughts? Is not believing in eternal security the same as believing in a faith+works salvation?

Personally, I believe the Mennonite friends I have are no less born again than I am. I think people will be surprised in heaven, at who "made it", and who didn't. "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion".

You must be born again before you can believe. So no doctrines are necessary before the New Birth.

 

[Van]

You must be born again before you can believe. So no doctrines are necessary before the New Birth.

How can an individual be chosen through (or on the basis of) faith in the truth, if they unable to put their faith in the truth? So Calvinism must nullify 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

Every time you see saved by grace through faith, that means their faith preceded being saved by grace. Our faith provides our access to the grace in which we stand. Romans 5:2

 

[Yeshua1]

And yet, here am I, still waiting for the requested verses, while having provided a few.

Habakkuk 2"4, reaffirmed in Romans 1:17, and Galatians 3:11

 

[Yeshua1]

The premise of this Opening Post question is that a person must believe the "right" things to be saved. For example, to be saved a person must believe in eternal security, or limited atonement, or universalism. This premise is bogus. We are to believe "into Him!" That means we put our faith and devotion in and toward Christ Jesus. Now it is God alone who either credits our faith (and He knows our heart) or not. A person could hold the correct view of all the gospel doctrines, be not willing to give up worldly treasures, and Jesus will say 'I never knew you." OTOH, some unstudied rube could commit fully to Christ, and do his best to serve his Lord, and God would credit that faith as righteousness, without knowing about eternal security.

God gives to his own in Christ that faith, so we get no credit for saving faith!

 

[Yeshua1]

You must be born again before you can believe. So no doctrines are necessary before the New Birth.

you must still hear the Gospel though....

 

[Yeshua1]

How can an individual be chosen through (or on the basis of) faith in the truth, if they unable to put their faith in the truth? So Calvinism must nullify 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

Every time you see saved by grace through faith, that means their faith preceded being saved by grace. Our faith provides our access to the grace in which we stand. Romans 5:2

Lost sinner, natural man, must have God enable them to be able to believe in Jesus first!

 

[Van]

God gives to his own in Christ that faith, so we get no credit for saving faith!

Opening pushing logical impossibilities is utter nonsense. Since an individual is chosen through or on the basis of faith, they cannot be given faith after being chosen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Van]

Lost sinner, natural man, must have God enable them to be able to believe in Jesus first!

Matthew 23:13 precludes the utter nonsense being spewed here. The lost sinners, the natural men were entering the kingdom so they had spiritual ability. Full Stop

 

[Yeshua1]

Opening pushing logical impossibilities is utter nonsense. Since an individual is chosen through or on the basis of faith, they cannot be given faith after being chosen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Election and regeneration before faith in Christ!

 

[Yeshua1]

Matthew 23:13 precludes the utter nonsense being spewed here. The lost sinners, the natural men were entering the kingdom so they had spiritual ability. Full Stop

You misunderstand that passage!

 

[Van]

Election and regeneration before faith in Christ!

Once again an unbiblical claim. No verse or passage supports this utter nonsense. We are chosen for salvation on the basis of faith, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

 

[Van]

You misunderstand that passage!

Just read the verse. Matthew 23:13 precludes the utter nonsense being spewed here. The lost sinners, the natural men were entering the kingdom so they had spiritual ability. Full Stop

 

[Yeshua1]

Once again an unbiblical claim. No verse or passage supports this utter nonsense. We are chosen for salvation on the basis of faith, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

Check Romans 8, Apostle paul would disagree with you on this!

 

[Yeshua1]

Just read the verse. Matthew 23:13 precludes the utter nonsense being spewed here. The lost sinners, the natural men were entering the kingdom so they had spiritual ability. Full Stop

if true, paul and Jesus disagreed with each other on this!

 

[George Antonios]

You must be born again before you can believe. So no doctrines are necessary before the New Birth.

That's backwards. It'll always be backwards.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

No matter how much philosophy you pump into the Bible, your order will remain backwards. You know it, deep inside, you know it. You know you're flying in the face of countless Bible verses/truths.

It's not just backwards, it's blasphemous, because it has you elect and ultimately saved not because of Jesus Christ. You were already elect outside of Christ, then God simply put you in him to take you to heaven. Christ is the means of your salvation, not the cause. He's just your taxi driver.

Born again to believe...what a mess...

 

[George Antonios]

Habakkuk 2"4, reaffirmed in Romans 1:17, and Galatians 3:11

As applied of Paul to the church age, not the O.T. for Paul himself told you that the law is not of faith.
Also, you either forgot or ignored this quote of Habakkuk 2:4
Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
The context is the tribulation, where the dispensational setting will once again be a legal setting, and Habakkuk 2:4 will once again operate as it did under the law: that if you draw back, you can lose your salvation because there will be an element of works to salvation during the tribulation just as there was one under the law - like the Bible says over, and over, over again.
Eternal security is only true during the church age. Ask Saul.

 

[Yeshua1]

As applied of Paul to the church age, not the O.T. for Paul himself told you that the law is not of faith.
Also, you either forgot or ignored this quote of Habakkuk 2:4
Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
The context is the tribulation, where the dispensational setting will once again be a legal setting, and Habakkuk 2:4 will once again operate as it did under the law: that if you draw back, you can lose your salvation because there will be an element of works to salvation during the tribulation just as there was one under the law - like the Bible says over, and over, over again.
Eternal security is only true during the church age. Ask Saul.

Eternal life is same under either old or new Covenants, as the basis is still the stay , the Cross of Christ, received thru faith alone!

 

[1689Dave]

That's backwards. It'll always be backwards.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

No matter how much philosophy you pump into the Bible, your order will remain backwards. You know it, deep inside, you know it. You know you're flying in the face of countless Bible verses/truths.

It's not just backwards, it's blasphemous, because it has you elect and ultimately saved not because of Jesus Christ. You were already elect outside of Christ, then God simply put you in him to take you to heaven. Christ is the means of your salvation, not the cause. He's just your taxi driver.

Born again to believe...what a mess...

Only the born again received him.