Pope Francis rejects Viri Probati for Amazon

[RCommando]

Pope refuses to endorse married priests in the Amazon. Here's why - CNN

Thank you, Pope Francis. The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few...

 

[Yeshua1]

Pope refuses to endorse married priests in the Amazon. Here's why - CNN

Thank you, Pope Francis. The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few...

Too bad, as that would have been biblical to be married, and would have gone a long way in solving the children with priests issues!

 

[Walpole]

Too bad, as that would have been biblical to be married, and would have gone a long way in solving the children with priests issues!

What was Jesus' wife's name? How about St. Paul's? How about Timothy's? How about Titus'?

I presume they knew it was "Biblical to be married", yes?

 

[Particular]

What was Jesus' wife's name? How about St. Paul's? How about Timothy's? How about Titus'?

I presume they knew it was "Biblical to be married", yes?

Hmmm...your proclaimed "first pope" was married. Aquilla and Pricilla were married. Many of the prophets were...married.
Seems like an arbitrary mandate, but if you like it then it matters not to me.

 

[Walpole]

Hmmm...your proclaimed "first pope" was married. Aquilla and Pricilla were married. Many of the prophets were...married.
Seems like an arbitrary mandate, but if you like it then it matters not to me.

Indeed.

Now what was Jesus' wife's name? How about St. Paul's? How about Timothy's? How about Titus'?

Did they know it was "Biblical to be married"?

 

[Particular]

Indeed.

Now what was Jesus' wife's name? How about St. Paul's? How about Timothy's? How about Titus'?

Did they know it was "Biblical to be married"?

The Bible doesn't tell us.
What we know is that elders and deacons are married with children. We know that elders were the teachers in the church. We know that there were no priests in the early church.
If your church wants to make things up from thin air and you desire to follow their empty requirements, you are free to follow.

 

[Walpole]

The Bible doesn't tell us.

The Bible doesn't tell us because they were celibate.

What we know is that elders and deacons are married with children.

Some were, some weren't. Married clergy in the early Church was a concession. It was never a requirement. It was a concession since many of the Church's first adherents were converts who were already married. However, those clergy who were married in the ancient Church were expected to practice clerical continence. (cf. Council of Nicea, Canon 3)

We know that elders were the teachers in the church. We know that there were no priests in the early church.
If your church wants to make things up from thin air and you desire to follow their empty requirements, you are free to follow.

Of course the early Church had priests...

Priest (Presbyter)—-> 1 Tim 5:17, Titus 1:5, Hebrews 11:2, James 5:14, 1 Peter 5:1

The New Testament priesthood is demonstrated from the Scriptures explicitly in name (see above) and in function by the fact that there exists the new covenant, which is the Christian Eucharist (cf. Mt. 26: 28, Mark 14:24, Luke 22:20, 1 Cor 11:25).

The reason your sect does not have priests is because you do not have the Eucharist. And, f you have no Eucharist, you have no Church because the Church cannot exist without the Eucharist; nor can the Eucharist exist without the Church. Thus when you reject not only the reality of the Eucharist - God's presence among His people - you also reject the reality of the Church, and replace it with an "invisible, pneumatic" sect of disjointed believers of various and differing creeds. The reality is the Eucharist is the believer's means of communicatio / communion (1 Cor. 10:16); not only with God, but with our fellow believers. Thus the Eucharist is the Sacrament of the unity of men with God and of men with each other. For this reason, Christ's Church must have priests.


---> To summarize: No Priests = No Eucharist = No Church

 

[Particular]

The Bible doesn't tell us because they were celibate.



Some were, some weren't. Married clergy in the early Church was a concession. It was never a requirement. It was a concession since many of the Church's first adherents were converts who were already married. However, those clergy who were married in the ancient Church were expected to practice clerical continence. (cf. Council of Nicea, Canon 3)



Of course the early Church had priests...

Priest (Presbyter)—-> 1 Tim 5:17, Titus 1:5, Hebrews 11:2, James 5:14, 1 Peter 5:1

The reason your sect does not have priests is because you do not have the Eucharist. And, f you have no Eucharist, you have no Church because the Church cannot exist without the Eucharist; nor can the Eucharist exist without the Church. Thus when you reject not only the reality of the Eucharist - God's presence among His people - you also reject the reality of the Church, and replace it with an "invisible, pneumatic" sect of disjointed believers of various and differing creeds. The reality is the Eucharist is the believer's means of communicatio / communion (1 Cor. 10:16); not only with God, but with our fellow believers. Thus the Eucharist is the Sacrament of the unity of men with God and of men with each other. For this reason, Christ's Church must have priests.


---> To summarize: No Priests = No Eucharist = No Church

Well, you have made massive assumptions and then asserted they were fact.
There were no priests in the church. There is no need for them because we have Christ who is in the order of Melchizedek.
As for your church, it is so often wrong that no one can take its assertions seriously. Yet, you drink the Kool-aid. Good luck with that.

 

[Walpole]

Well, you have made massive assumptions and then asserted they were fact.
There were no priests in the church. There is no need for them because we have Christ who is in the order of Melchizedek.
As for your church, it is so often wrong that no one can take its assertions seriously. Yet, you drink the Kool-aid. Good luck with that.

Exactly! Christ is of the Order of Melchizedek, who blessed the Patriarch Abraham by offering the todah sacrifice consisting of wheat flour and wine (cf. Gen 14). Christ, like Melchizedek (and David and Jonah), begins His passion with a todah sacrifice in the Upper Room.

Christ, our High Priest (Hebrews 4:14) offers the Eucharistic sacrifice and commands us to do it, which perpetuates the saving sacrifice of the Cross. Thus, Christians are able to have a communion (communication) and participation (participation) with the body and blood of Christ on their altars...

"We have a cup that we bless; is not this cup we bless a participation (communcatio) in Christ’s blood? Is not the bread we break a participation (participatio) in Christ’s body?" (1 Cor 11:16)

"We have an altar of our own, and it is not those who carry out the worship of the tabernacle that are qualified to eat its sacrifices." (Hebrews 13:10)


The New Testament priesthood is demonstrated from the Scriptures explicitly in name (see my previous post) and in function by the fact that there exists the new covenant, which is the Christian Eucharist (cf. Mt. 26: 28, Mark 14:24, Luke 22:20, 1 Cor 11:25).

Once again, the reason your particular sect does not have a priesthood is because you do not have the Eucharist. The New Testament priesthood is the fulfillment of the Old Testament priesthood. In salvation history, the reality of the new always surpasses the figure of the old.


---> No priesthood = No Eucharist = No Church = Just another man-made sect

 

[Particular]

Exactly! Christ is of the Order of Melchizedek, who blessed the Patriarch Abraham by offering the todah sacrifice consisting of wheat flour and wine (cf. Gen 14). Christ, like Melchizedek (and David and Jonah), begins His passion with a todah sacrifice in the Upper Room.

Christ, our High Priest (Hebrews 4:14) offers the Eucharistic sacrifice and commands us to do it, which perpetuates the saving sacrifice of the Cross. Thus, Christians are able to have a communion (communication) and participation (participation) with the body and blood of Christ on their altars...

"We have a cup that we bless; is not this cup we bless a participation (communcatio) in Christ’s blood? Is not the bread we break a participation (participatio) in Christ’s body?" (1 Cor 11:16)

"We have an altar of our own, and it is not those who carry out the worship of the tabernacle that are qualified to eat its sacrifices." (Hebrews 13:10)


The New Testament priesthood is demonstrated from the Scriptures explicitly in name (see my previous post) and in function by the fact that there exists the new covenant, which is the Christian Eucharist (cf. Mt. 26: 28, Mark 14:24, Luke 22:20, 1 Cor 11:25).

Once again, the reason your particular sect does not have a priesthood is because you do not have the Eucharist. The New Testament priesthood is the fulfillment of the Old Testament priesthood. In salvation history, the reality of the new always surpasses the figure of the old.


---> No priesthood = No Eucharist = No Church = Just another man-made sect

Christ died once. His sacrifice is once and for all the saints. You teach Christ perpetually on the cross and dying. You completely botch the symbolism Christ evoked in the last supper. Because it is so badly botched, it leads to salvation by works with no grace. It leads to a botched concept that priests are needed to perform a ceremony that must continually be performed in order for a person to maintain salvation. It is almost entirely pagan and an abomination of scripture. Truly it represents anti-christ.

 

[Walpole]

Christ died once. His sacrifice is once and for all the saints.

Amen!

Hebrews 7:27 ---> "Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself."

You teach Christ perpetually on the cross and dying.

Straw man alert! ---> Please read this!

You completely botch the symbolism Christ evoked in the last supper. Because it is so badly botched, it leads to salvation by works with no grace. It leads to a botched concept that priests are needed to perform a ceremony that must continually be performed in order for a person to maintain salvation. It is almost entirely pagan and an abomination of scripture. Truly it represents anti-christ.

Priests are needed to "do this" in the command to "do this in commemoration of me." (cf. Luke 22:19)
Jesus Christ fulfills the type / figure of the Old Covenant of Moses in Exodus with the new reality of the New Covenant Eucharistic sacrifice. In salvation history, the reality of the new always surpasses the figure of the old…

Exodus 24 (The figure) ---> The hill, the altar, the twelve, the blood, Moses, the covenant, the eating the drinking and communion with God ---> Points to the reality of the new now being fulfilled by Jesus Christ ---> The Upper Room, the altar, the twelve, the blood, the New Moses, the new covenant, the eating and drinking and communion with God.

If the Eucharist is not the body and blood of Christ, it would be the first time in all of salvation history where the figure / type of something surpassed the reality of it.

Again, the reason your particular sect does not have a priesthood is because you do not have the Eucharist.

---> No priesthood = No Eucharist = No Church = Just another man-made sect


The Eucharist is the normative means by which man has communion with God (cf. 1 Cor 10:16). For He is truly present amongst His people, Emmanuel. Without the Eucharist, you are left with Hester Panim.

 

[Particular]

Amen!

Hebrews 7:27 ---> "Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself."




Straw man alert! ---> Please read this!




Priests are needed to "do this" in the command to "do this in commemoration of me." (cf. Luke 22:19)
Jesus Christ fulfills the type / figure of the Old Covenant of Moses in Exodus with the new reality of the New Covenant Eucharistic sacrifice. In salvation history, the reality of the new always surpasses the figure of the old…

Exodus 24 (The figure) ---> The hill, the altar, the twelve, the blood, Moses, the covenant, the eating the drinking and communion with God ---> Points to the reality of the new now being fulfilled by Jesus Christ ---> The Upper Room, the altar, the twelve, the blood, the New Moses, the new covenant, the eating and drinking and communion with God.

If the Eucharist is not the body and blood of Christ, it would be the first time in all of salvation history where the figure / type of something surpassed the reality of it.

Again, the reason your particular sect does not have a priesthood is because you do not have the Eucharist.

---> No priesthood = No Eucharist = No Church = Just another man-made sect


The Eucharist is the normative means by which man has communion with God (cf. 1 Cor 10:16). For He is truly present amongst His people, Emmanuel. Without the Eucharist, you are left with Hester Panim.

Unfortunately your church doesn't believe in the priesthood of all God's chosen children. Instead, your church perverts scripture and creates lies that become your stumbling block. I truly wish your stumbling block was removed from you so you could accept scripture above your false church.

1 Peter 2:4-10 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

 

[Walpole]

Unfortunately your church doesn't believe in the priesthood of all God's chosen children. Instead, your church perverts scripture and creates lies that become your stumbling block. I truly wish your stumbling block was removed from you so you could accept scripture above your false church.

Still erecting the Straw Man??? Ok, I'll play along...

Unfortunately your church doesn't believe in the priesthood of all God's chosen children. Instead, your church perverts Scripture and creates lies that you must sacrifice babies to Baal, become your stumbling block. I truly wish your stumbling block of thinking Baal needs the sacrifices of your babies was removed from you so you could accept Scripture above your false church.

Man this is fun...I see why you are such a big fan! I can say you believe anything I can think up!

1 Peter 2:4-10 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Amen!

1 Cor 11: 27-29 ---> "Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."


If you do not have the priesthood of Jesus Christ, you do not have the Eucharist. You have an empty ritual; a mockery of that which Christ instituted. You have Hester Panim.

 

[Particular]

Still erecting the Straw Man??? Ok, I'll play along...

Unfortunately your church doesn't believe in the priesthood of all God's chosen children. Instead, your church perverts Scripture and creates lies that you must sacrifice babies to Baal, become your stumbling block. I truly wish your stumbling block of thinking Baal needs the sacrifices of your babies was removed from you so you could accept Scripture above your false church.

Man this is fun...I see why you are such a big fan! I can say you believe anything I can think up!




Amen!

1 Cor 11: 27-29 ---> "Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."

[/QUOTE]Again, your church badly misunderstands the Lord's supper. It misses it so badly that it turns it into legalistic works salvation. You keep showing us the error and yet you cannot imagine it is a false teaching.

 

[Oseas3]

Amen!

Hebrews 7:27 ---> "Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself."

Straw man alert! ---> Please read this!

Priests are needed to "do this" in the command to "do this in commemoration of me." (cf. Luke 22:19)
Jesus Christ fulfills the type / figure of the Old Covenant of Moses in Exodus with the new reality of the New Covenant Eucharistic sacrifice. In salvation history, the reality of the new always surpasses the figure of the old…

Exodus 24 (The figure) ---> The hill, the altar, the twelve, the blood, Moses, the covenant, the eating the drinking and communion with God ---> Points to the reality of the new now being fulfilled by Jesus Christ ---> The Upper Room, the altar, the twelve, the blood, the New Moses, the new covenant, the eating and drinking and communion with God.

If the Eucharist is not the body and blood of Christ, it would be the first time in all of salvation history where the figure / type of something surpassed the reality of it.

Again, the reason your particular sect does not have a priesthood is because you do not have the Eucharist.

---> No priesthood = No Eucharist = No Church = Just another man-made sect


The Eucharist is the normative means by which man has communion with God (cf. 1 Cor 10:16). For He is truly present amongst His people, Emmanuel. Without the Eucharist, you are left with Hester Panim.

The Eucharist is a worship celebrated by idolaters according to the doctrine of the Great Whore, the idolater Roman Catholic Church,
and what they do is just a satanic dissimulation of celebration made by the Lord JESUS in memory of His death hanged on the cross that the Devil was preparing for Him instead Barabbas a robber and evildoer.

Every religious ceremony performed by the idolaters and PEDOPHILES priests besides it be a disguised imitation, it is a sorcerie, it is a celebration made by the spirit of the Devil.

The celebration of eucharist by the idolater Roman Catholic Church has nothing to do with the Spirit of God the Father, nor of Jesus, nor of the Holy Spirit, but the spirit of Devil and Satan, the old Serpent, the father of lie.

The eucharist celebrated by demons is a source of disease, serious illness, and death, and all sorts of misfortunes that happen in the life of peoples around the earth because it is a satanic cerimony made by demons.

Eucharist made by the idolater Roman Catholic Church is witchcraft, sorcery, a celebration of idolaters and a cult of demons. Babylon the Great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Actually all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her PLAGUES.

I tell this in the NAME of my LORD Jesus Christ, and in Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him),
and LORD of lords

 

[Adonia]

Again, the reason your particular sect does not have a priesthood is because you do not have the Eucharist.

But they have grape juice and crackers - doesn't that count?

 

[Adonia]

The Eucharist is a worship celebrated by idolaters according to the doctrine of the Great Whore, the idolater Roman Catholic Church,
and what they do is just a satanic dissimulation of celebration made by the Lord JESUS in memory of His death hanged on the cross that the Devil was preparing for Him instead Barabbas a robber and evildoer.

Every religious ceremony performed by the idolaters and PEDOPHILES priests besides it be a disguised imitation, it is a sorcerie, it is a celebration made by the spirit of the Devil.

The celebration of eucharist by the idolater Roman Catholic Church has nothing to do with the Spirit of God the Father, nor of Jesus, nor of the Holy Spirit, but the spirit of Devil and Satan, the old Serpent, the father of lie.

The eucharist celebrated by demons is a source of disease, serious illness, and death, and all sorts of misfortunes that happen in the life of peoples around the earth because it is a satanic cerimony made by demons.

Eucharist made by the idolater Roman Catholic Church is witchcraft, sorcery, a celebration of idolaters and a cult of demons. Babylon the Great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Actually all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her PLAGUES.

I tell this in the NAME of my LORD Jesus Christ, and in Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him),
and LORD of lords

Chick tract #16?

 

[Adonia]

Again, your church badly misunderstands the Lord's supper. It misses it so badly that it turns it into legalistic works salvation. You keep showing us the error and yet you cannot imagine it is a false teaching.[/QUOTE]

No, your perversion is of the Lord's Supper with grape juice and cracker symbolism. All of Christendom believed in the "Real Presence" of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist until a man named Huldrych Zwingli came on the scene in the 16th century and himself parted from the original renegades of Christianity. Once again you follow the lead of one man with this evil doctrine that has no basis of fact in the Holy Scriptures or the teaching of Christianity for over 1500 years!

So we can see that from the outset of what Martin Luther did, things took off in many different directions with people deciding for themselves how they would interpret the Scriptures and the result was chaos and lies. The sad part was the many people who were deluded (and still are) into believing these falsehoods which has led to the loss of many souls into the abyss.

 

[Adonia]

Still erecting the Straw Man??? Ok, I'll play along...

Unfortunately your church doesn't believe in the priesthood of all God's chosen children. Instead, your church perverts Scripture and creates lies that you must sacrifice babies to Baal, become your stumbling block. I truly wish your stumbling block of thinking Baal needs the sacrifices of your babies was removed from you so you could accept Scripture above your false church.

Man this is fun...I see why you are such a big fan! I can say you believe anything I can think up!




Amen!

1 Cor 11: 27-29 ---> "Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."


If you do not have the priesthood of Jesus Christ, you do not have the Eucharist. You have an empty ritual; a mockery of that which Christ instituted. You have Hester Panim.

Very well said friend.

 

[Adonia]

Hmmm...your proclaimed "first pope" was married.

But he left his wife to serve the Lord exclusively - surely you are aware of that?