Pope Francis rejects Viri Probati for Amazon

[Walter]

This is your interpretation... that you are trying to foist upon Catholic doctrine. The Church is very clear that He is not re-sacrificed. Again, do your homework before stating what the Church does or doesn't teach. You are correct, however, that His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity are truly present. Thank God!

I like Scott Hahn's explanation that the Eucharist is a 're-presentation' of His death upon the cross for our redemption. He made there, by His one oblation of Himself once offered, a full perfect, and sufficient sacrifice, oblation, and satisfaction, for the sins of the whole world.

 

[Yeshua1]

This is your interpretation... that you are trying to foist upon Catholic doctrine. The Church is very clear that He is not re-sacrificed. Again, do your homework before stating what the Church does or doesn't teach. You are correct, however, that His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity are truly present. Thank God!

That would be idolatry, as you worship that which was just to symbolically represent what he already done for us on the Cross!

 

[Yeshua1]

Are you aware there are thousands upon thousands of married Catholic priests in the Eastern Rites of the Church? I'm not referring to the Eastern Orthodox Church. The only rite of the Catholic Church that has celibacy as a discipline is the Latin Rite.

Why would it not be allowed for all priests then?
Does Rome permit say Anglican/Lutheran pastors who convert to say married and keep their kids then?
If yes, why not for all of their priests that option?

 

[Yeshua1]

I like Scott Hahn's explanation that the Eucharist is a 're-presentation' of His death upon the cross for our redemption. He made there, by His one oblation of Himself once offered, a full perfect, and sufficient sacrifice, oblation, and satisfaction, for the sins of the whole world.

Except that Rome vests in that sacrament effectual grace, which is not biblical!

 

[Yeshua1]

Now as for the “One mediator between God and man” bit, that is absolutely true,
except I would use a capital “M” to indicate that Christ is THE Mediator, that we
put all our faith and trust in Him, but as we can observe so easily in this life, we
all prayer for each other, hence we are all (with a lower case “m”) mediators to
God (even Jesus) on each others’ behalf.
That doesn’t mean we on Earth or saints in Heaven are in any way Mediator as
Jesus is the Mediator to the Father.

All who are saved are priests and saints unto God, correct?

 

[Adonia]

Except that Rome vests in that sacrament effectual grace, which is not biblical!

Grace comes from God, from Jesus, in this case the Holy Eucharist. Therefore such grace that is bestowed on he who receives the sacrament is totally and completely biblical. It is your interpretation of the scriptures about this that is in error.

 

[Adonia]

Why would it not be allowed for all priests then?
Does Rome permit say Anglican/Lutheran pastors who convert to say married and keep their kids then?
If yes, why not for all of their priests that option?

It is a discipline of the Church that single men who are ordained as priests do not have the option of anything except the celibate life. Anyone single man who has a problem with that simply does not seek to become a Catholic priest.

 

[Adonia]

That would be idolatry, as you worship that which was just to symbolically represent what he already done for us on the Cross!

No, not idolatry at all because the Holy Eucharist contains within it the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ. If you don't believe that fine, but we do, as do our brothers in the Eastern Orthodox Church and the other churches that are associated with the Catholic Church. You are certainly entitled to your interpretation of the Scriptures, no matter how much error filled they are.

 

[Yeshua1]

Grace comes from God, from Jesus, in this case the Holy Eucharist. Therefore such grace that is bestowed on he who receives the sacrament is totally and completely biblical. It is your interpretation of the scriptures about this that is in error.

There is NO effectual grace within it, as it is idolatry, as all grace needed comes to us fully when born again, as right then fully Justified by God Himself!

 

[Yeshua1]

It is a discipline of the Church that single men who are ordained as priests do not have the option of anything except the celibate life. Anyone single man who has a problem with that simply does not seek to become a Catholic priest.

it is not stated in the scriptures as a requirement....

 

[Yeshua1]

No, not idolatry at all because the Holy Eucharist contains within it the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ. If you don't believe that fine, but we do, as do our brothers in the Eastern Orthodox Church and the other churches that are associated with the Catholic Church. You are certainly entitled to your interpretation of the Scriptures, no matter how much error filled they are.

You blaspheme God by daring to see a wafer and cheap wine as actually becoming God himself!

 

[Walpole]

You blaspheme God by daring to see a wafer and cheap wine as actually becoming God himself!

I always found it odd that those who profess to believe that God was present in a box making its way across the wilderness, took the form of a cloud, took the form of a dove, and even became an actual man and entering into His creation as a baby, cannot bring themselves to believe that this same God would be present amongst His people in the Eucharist.

At its core, your objection to the Eucharist is the same objection Muslims and Jews have toward the Incarnation: God could not, would not and should not become man.

 

[Yeshua1]

I always found it odd that those who profess to believe that God was present in a box making its way across the wilderness, took the form of a cloud, took the form of a dove, and even became an actual man and entering into His creation as a baby, cannot bring themselves to believe that this same God would be present amongst His people in the Eucharist.

At its core, your objection to the Eucharist is the same objection Muslims and Jews have toward the Incarnation: God could not, would not and should not become man.

No, my objection is that you would bow down and genuflex to a wafer and cheap wine!

 

[Walpole]

No, my objection is that you would bow down and genuflex to a wafer and cheap wine!

1 Cor 10:16 ---> "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?"

1 Cor 11: 27-29 ---> "Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."


If the Eucharist is not the body and blood of Christ, you have an empty ritual; a mockery of that which Christ instituted. Instead of Emmanuel, you have Hester Panim.

I've always said Protestant churches should have a sign outside their doors with the words the angel greeted Mary Magdalene with on Easter morning: "He is not here."

 

[Yeshua1]

1 Cor 10:16 ---> "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?"

1 Cor 11: 27-29 ---> "Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."


If the Eucharist is not the body and blood of Christ, you have an empty ritual; a mockery of that which Christ instituted. Instead of Emmanuel, you have Hester Panim.

I've always said Protestant churches should have a sign outside their doors with the words the angel greeted Mary Magdalene with on Easter morning: "He is not here."

RCC should learn the truth "he is risen indeed!"

 

[Walpole]

Why would it not be allowed for all priests then?
Does Rome permit say Anglican/Lutheran pastors who convert to say married and keep their kids then?
If yes, why not for all of their priests that option?

Because there is no tradition in the history of Christianity where the ordained then get married. Rather, any married clergy in antiquity were already married prior to receiving ordination. This is still the case with the Church’s married clergy today.

Furthermore, those clergy who were married are expected to practice clerical continence.

 

[JonC]

Pope refuses to endorse married priests in the Amazon. Here's why - CNN

Thank you, Pope Francis. The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few...

I kept thinking Amazon....why the heck are priests at Amazon. Don't worry too much about me. I get it now.

 

[Particular]

Grace comes from God, from Jesus, in this case the Holy Eucharist. Therefore such grace that is bestowed on he who receives the sacrament is totally and completely biblical. It is your interpretation of the scriptures about this that is in error.

Grace does not come from eating a wafer and drinking a shot of wine. Grace does not come from calling the wafer Jesus flesh and the wine Jesus blood. Grace is not conveyed by human action and merit. That is not grace. That is meritorious works.
Grace is God choosing to redeem you despite your rebellion and your utter failure to be holy. It is God giving you what you do not deserve.
You are not teaching grace in the Eucharist. You are teaching legalism and works that force God to act. It is a variation of the Judaizers Paul condemns in his letter to the Galatians.

 

[Particular]

It is a discipline of the Church that single men who are ordained as priests do not have the option of anything except the celibate life. Anyone single man who has a problem with that simply does not seek to become a Catholic priest.

Correct. It is an artificial demand of your denomination upon its leadership.

 

[Adonia]

You blaspheme God by daring to see a wafer and cheap wine as actually becoming God himself!

We shall see who's right upon our leaving this world. If you are right, then yes blasphemy and idolatry will be the correct charges against us. But if we are right and you are wrong, it is YOU who will be guilty of blaspheming not only God, but committing the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit and will suffer the appropriate consequences. Personally, I am not worried as I know the orthodox belief on this is the correct one. It is YOU who needs to worry. Good luck!