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Featured Asking for scriptural rebuttal to TULIP

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Wesley Briggman, Feb 25, 2020.

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  1. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    While I believe TULIP is supported via scripture, I do not consider myself a Calvinist because of his anti-Semitic views.

    TULIP

    T of TULIP Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)


    [Isa 64:6 ESV] 6 We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away..


    [Jer 17:9 ESV] 9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?



    U of TULIP Unconditional Election

    Rom 8:28 - 30 ESV - And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.


    L of TULIP Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)

    [Jhn 10:3-4 ESV] 3 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.

    [1Co 15:23 ESV] 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

    [Phl 3:12 ESV] 12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.


    I of TULIP Irresistible Grace

    [Jhn 6:37-40 ESV] 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."


    [Tit 3:5-7 ESV] 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


    P of TULIP Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

    [Eph 1:13-14 ESV] 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

    [Eph 4:30 ESV] 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.



    EXTRA, EXTRA. Read all about it!!

    Regardless of the efforts of professing Christian working in the name of Christ, if they are not born-again as His child, they will not enter the kingdom of heaven. They exercised their will while not in submission to His will.


    [Mat 7:21-23 ESV] 21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'



    Anti-Semitism of the "Church Fathers"

    Their [the Jews] rotten and unbending stiffneckedness deserves that they be oppressed unendingly and without measure or end and that they die in their misery without the pity of anyone.

    Excerpt from "Ad Quaelstiones et Objecta Juaei Cuiusdam Responsio," by John Calvin
     
    #1 Wesley Briggman, Feb 25, 2020
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  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    God's election is conditional, the condition being in that being elect of God cannot be deserved. That is a condition.
     
    #2 37818, Feb 26, 2020
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  3. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    There is no scripture that supports Calvinism. There is no such thing as original sin or total depravity. There are no elect Gentiles in scripture. The Atonement is not limited to the elect.God's grace is not irresistible.Salvation is eternal. There is no stopping eternal.
    I have a Question for you. Prove Calvinism with scripture alone first ?
    MB
     
    #3 MB, Feb 26, 2020
  4. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Wait, what!?

    You reject the soteriological observations of John Calvin because he was an anti-semite? What does his opinion about Judaism have to do with the observations revealed in scripture?

    By that logic, every Christian who owned slaves should have their ideas about God rejected regardless if they are biblical.

    The tenets of TULIP stand or fall on scripture, not on John Calvin, who by the way never created the acronym.
     
    #4 Particular, Feb 26, 2020
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  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    He never said they stand or fall on Calvin.
     
    #5 Revmitchell, Feb 26, 2020
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    election based totally upon the will and pleasure of God, so is unconditional, as God does not require his own elect to do anything!
     
    #6 Yeshua1, Feb 26, 2020
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I worship and follow Jesus, not Calvin, and being a Calvinist Baptist, do try to separate his wheat from his chaff!
     
    #7 Yeshua1, Feb 26, 2020
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  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he already did that in the original post!
    None of your own assertions even have scriptural support!
     
    #8 Yeshua1, Feb 26, 2020
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  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    amen, as all theology stands or falls upon the scriptures themselves, as all save the Apostles have some areas of "faulty theology"
     
    #9 Yeshua1, Feb 26, 2020
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  10. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    Please provide documentation for your assertion.
     
    #10 Wesley Briggman, Feb 26, 2020
  11. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    [Gen 12:3 ESV] 3 I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."
     
    #11 Wesley Briggman, Feb 26, 2020
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  12. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Try reading what is written before you react with hostility. (Where is that thread about Calvinists being hateful to other people?...)

    Here is the opening statement by the OP:

    Sounds like he's saying the same thing you are.
     
    #12 InTheLight, Feb 26, 2020
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    So it is OK to do things to aquire God's merit toward salvation.
     
    #13 37818, Feb 26, 2020
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    My assertion is one's election cannot be earned. Matthew 7:21-23.
     
    #14 37818, Feb 26, 2020
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  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Saved by Grace alone thru faith alone.
     
    #15 Yeshua1, Feb 26, 2020
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  16. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Specifically, people of the promise. Abraham is given a promise and covenant that through his seed the Promised One would come. Your verse is directly speaking of all those whom God elects to save.
    Remember that not all Israel is Israel.
     
    #16 Particular, Feb 26, 2020
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  17. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Being a Calvinist is not like being a Lutheran. There is no Concord to follow. Calvinist refers to the soteriological tenets of Calvin's followers as outlined in TULIP. I don't know of any person who directly follows all that Calvin wrote. It would be more accurate for the OP to state he does not follow the Reformed Church, Christian Reformed Church, Presbyterian Church, etc, than to say he doesn't follow Calvin because he was an anti-semite. His statement makes no logical sense.
     
    #17 Particular, Feb 26, 2020
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  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Being a Calvinist Baptist, would say that Calvin theology had some areas just wrong per scriptures, but I only accord perfect theology anyways to those who wrote the scriptures and all of the inspired theology within there!
     
    #18 Yeshua1, Feb 26, 2020
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  19. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    ITL knows that because he isn't a capital idiot.
    Yes, ITL knows that, (as does everyone on this board because they aren't capital idiots.)
    No one on this board does...nor do they assume that anyone who calls themselves a "Calvinist" does.
    That's because they aren't capital idiots.
    No, it wouldn't, not really.....just that he doesn't follow Calvin because he was an anti-Semite...
    The O.P. inexplicably finds it necessary to assert the fact that while he is a "Calvinist" he isn't one because he is anti-Semitic, because he acknowledges that Calvin was.
    No one would think that, or at least assume it, so his O.P. is unnecessary, but, whatever.
    Most of his statements are poorly articulated, disjointed, and hard to follow....also, they're often illogically presented, but, I can flesh through what he's saying.
    He is saying little of import....
    He is merely asserting that he isn't a Calvinist because he hates Jews or whatever.....as though anyone was accusing him of it.

    Maybe Calvin hated Jews.....maybe he didn't.

    O.K....
    That isn't my beef with what is commonly known as "Calvinism" nor anyone else's to this day....
    We don't call it "Gottschalkism"….do we?
     
    #19 HeirofSalvation, Feb 26, 2020
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  20. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    I have no problem with the doctrine of election but I do have a problem with the Calvinist interpretation of it... Election is NEVER a remnant, if that is the case then Heaven would not be full... Thank God it is!... But not because of what any of us have done but of what Jesus Christ the Son Of God has done for us... Heaven is full of an unnumbered multitude!... Brother Glen:)

    After numbering the twelve tribes of Israel this is what follows!

    Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

    7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

    I expect to see you all there even the Calvinist brethren who still think its a remnant, won't they be surprised!
     
    #20 tyndale1946, Feb 26, 2020
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