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Featured Two principle NT issues.

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by 37818, Mar 1, 2020.

  1. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    NKJV is an excellent tradition. With your textual preference you have chosen wisely.




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  2. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Uncial is a nightmare. Hahaha
    I have to think hard looking at 01 or 03 and others.

    Minuscule is where it is at.

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  3. Origen

    Origen Active Member

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    The Vulgate has "unigenitus Filius" = "only begotten son." The Peshitta has "only begotten God."
     
    #63 Origen, Mar 3, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2020
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  4. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    They used the phrase μονογενης υίος as well. Which could very well have came from John 3:16.

    As Paul McReynolds* has pointed out, Bart Ehrman failed to distinguish from the early church fathers whether John 3:16 or John 1:18 is referenced. Without John 1:18 being specifically cited, we can not say they knew of the reading. However, when they cite μονογενης θεος without citation of chapter and verse, we know where it comes from. It only occurs in John 1:18.

    * Paul McReynolds, “John 1:18 in Textual Variation and Translation,” in New Testament Textual Criticism (Oxford: Clarendon, 1981), 118. Cf. Carroll Osburn, “Methodology in Identifying Patristic Citations in NT Textual Criticism,” NovT 47 (2005): 313-43.














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  5. Garrett20

    Garrett20 Member

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    I believe the Old Latin contains “only begotten Son” as well.
     
  6. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    I can't find this....I was wondering the same thing.

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  7. Garrett20

    Garrett20 Member

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    Amen! I have many friends of the critical text persuasion that prefer the NKJV as well for its extensive textual notes.
     
  8. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    I do see where the UBS shows an early version of the Vulgate reading just ό μονογενης. No "son", no "God", just "The unique one" or "The Begotten One".

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  9. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    It is also just really well done. I don't like it is based on the TR, but the translators did really well from the text they worked from.

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  10. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Using English Bible version footnotes to get text critical information is like reading a comic book version of classic literature, they simplify things to almost to the point of absurdity.

    Buy yourself a Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament and learn to use the apparatus.

    Rob
     
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  11. Garrett20

    Garrett20 Member

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    I saw where some of the Vulgate manuscripts read differently. I know Theodore Letis covered John 1.18 extensively in his work, “The Ecclesiastical Text”. He mentions “Son” as the reading in nearly all of the Old Latin witnesses and all but 2 in the Vulgate (Ecclesiastes Text, pg. 132). He claims that most scholars acknowledge that both readings go back to the second century.
     
  12. Garrett20

    Garrett20 Member

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    Agreed Rob! I also have the Greek New Testament according to the Majority Text as well as Metzger’s Textual Commentary.
     
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  13. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    .



    Islamic Caliphates are common knowledge.

    Even a secular History book will cover it.

    Every Christian History book I have covers it as well, such as Baker's "Christian History" 3rd Edition pp.108-110 and Kuiper's "The church in history" pp. 61-68.

    Needham's large work covers it as well.





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  14. Origen

    Origen Active Member

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    For Old Latin manuscripts see a, b, c, e, f, ff2, q. All have “only begotten Son."

    Note that the oldest (i.e. Codex Vercellensis) dates to 350.
    List of New Testament Latin manuscripts - Wikipedia
     
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  15. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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    While that is very true, almost the same could be said for N/A. Does it always give reading for Vaticanus? I think not. Theirs is a "handy scholars edition." They pass over many variants as well. We cannot reconstruct manuscripts from the handy compact edition. Maybe that is unfair, they only have so much room. But why not note all of Vaticanus's variations?
     
    #75 Conan, Mar 3, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2020
  16. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    To say that the NA or even the UBS is "almost the same" as using the NKJV footnotes is a comparison without warrant.

    I have also never came across a variant where Vaticanus is not cited. [This would not count spelling differences]

    The purpose of the NA or any Greek text is not so we can reconstruct manscripts. If you want to know what it says, read that manuscript.

    For the Bible translator there is absolutely no need to have every variant. We would be looking at way to many spelling differences for it to even be useful.

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  17. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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    True enough. But USB has so few variants.

    Oh I am sure it is always cited when they list a variant. I guess I was trying to complain they do not list all of B's variants with their text.


    Do you have a link where I can read Codex Vaticanus online? I am sorry some of my complaints go back to the days before computers.
    That is certainly true. Excellent point.
     
  18. Origen

    Origen Active Member

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  19. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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    Got a link to Codex Vaticanus if anyone is interested.

    DigiVatLib
     
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  20. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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