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Featured Where the hell is hell?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by George Antonios, Apr 8, 2020.

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  1. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Fully agree with point # 1
    IMHO - # 2 is the icing on the cake!
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Footnote of NET on "hell" (Matthew 5:22)

    The word translated hell is “Gehenna” (γέεννα, geenna), a Greek transliteration of the Hebrew words ge hinnom (“Valley of Hinnom”). This was the valley along the south side of Jerusalem. In OT times it was used for human sacrifices to the pagan god Molech (cf. Jer 7:31; 19:5-6; 32:35), and it came to be used as a place where human excrement and rubbish were disposed of and burned. In the intertestamental period, it came to be used symbolically as the place of divine punishment (cf. 1 En. 27:2, 90:26; 4 Ezra 7:36).

    So to answer the question where is Hell, the answer is no where.
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    ". . . everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: . . ." -- Matthew 25:41. ". . . the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, . . ." -- Revelation 20:10.
     
  4. robycop3

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    Well, actually, it IS somewhere. It's already prepared, originally for the devil & his angels. (Matt. 25:41) Most likely, it's in another dimension, I. E. the spirit world.
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    My point is that "Hell" cannot be found in scripture. What is found are names like Gehenna, Lake of Fire, Abyss, Hades, Everlasting fire, but no "Hell." It is a made up name. Where the Gehenna is Gehenna, or where the Hades is Hades, or where is the Abyss, or Lake of Fire, or Everlasting Fire is the question we should ask.
     
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  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    "Hell" is a made up name, not found in scripture. And it confuses the issue because both Hades and Gehenna, two very different places, are translated as if the same place - Hell. The "Everlasting Fire" exists, as scripture proclaims, but if you want to give it a name, call if Gehenna or Lake of Fire.
     
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  7. Salty

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    Hell is in the KJV 54 times
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I see you coulld use the "interlinear" box on any of the verses listed and find (NT) Gehenna and Hades, and (OT) Sheol. So please tell me, when we die, if unsaved, do we go to Hades or Gehenna first? If all you know is the lost go to Hell, you cannot answer the question. Then try to explain this verse as rendered in the KJV:
    Rev 20:14
    And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
     
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  9. Salty

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    I like the way Jack Van Impine (sp) mentioned -

    Hell is the county jail - waiting final judgment
    Lake of Fire is the Prison - after conviction
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Hades is the first place the lost are confined, a jail so to speak, that holds people until the trial (Judgement) and then they go to their destruction in the Lake of Fire.

    Even the NKJV fixed Revelation 20:14 so it made sense.
     
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  11. Baptist Believer

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    Actually the eternal state of the lost sinner is death/non-existence. They are destroyed in the Lake of Fire.

    Our friend who posted the video, as well as many Christians over the last 400 years, doesn't realize that the King James Translation translates a number of different words as "hell," and each word has a different meaning. In the Old Testament, the word "sheol" (signifying where the dead are gathered to their ancestors) is variously translated "the grave" or "hell" or "the pit." The word itself has no moral overtones, and simply describes the common fate of all humankind. The context will provide the needed moral stance.

    In the New Testament, the King James translators translated three different Greek words (with different meanings) all as "hell."

    The first is "Hades," which is the unseen place of the dead, essentially the same concept as "Sheol" in the Old Testament. The word itself has no moral overtones, and simply describes the common fate of all humankind. The context will provide the needed moral stance.

    The second (and most common word attributed to Jesus in the Gospels) is "Gehenna," which is literally the "Valley of the sons of Hinnom" (aka "Valley of Fire" or "Valley of Slaughter") which is located west and south of Jerusalem. It was a symbolic place of shame and suffering, where, historically, the people of Judah had burned alive their children to Molech/Baal/Topheth. It was also, historically, the valley where God's judgment had caused the corpses of the ungodly idolatrous people of Judah to be piled up to be eaten by insects/birds/animals and burned -- see Jeremiah 7:30-34 and 19:2-6.

    The third is only used once, and it is "Tartarus" -- a Greek name for the abode of the damned.

    So as not to congest this explanation with a lot of extra material, I will cite the usages in posts to follow shortly.
     
  12. Baptist Believer

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    THE FOUR WORDS TRANSLATED “HELL” IN THE KING JAMES TRANSLATION OF THE BIBLE (PART 1)

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    OLD TESTAMENT — The word “sheol” is translated into English
    three different ways (“the grave”, “hell” or “the pit”)
    in the King James Translation of the Old Testament.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    שְׁא֣וֹל

    šə·’ō·wl — “Sheol” — the grave, the unseen realm of the dead

    Genesis 37:35 – And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted; and he said, For I will go down into the grave unto my son mourning. Thus his father wept for him.
    Genesis 42:38 – And he said, My son shall not go down with you; for his brother is dead, and he is left alone: if mischief befall him by the way in the which ye go, then shall ye bring down my gray hairs with sorrow to the grave.
    Genesis 44:29 – And if ye take this also from me, and mischief befall him, ye shall bring down my gray hairs with sorrow to the grave.
    Genesis 44:31 – It shall come to pass, when he seeth that the lad is not with us, that he will die: and thy servants shall bring down the gray hairs of thy servant our father with sorrow to the grave.
    Numbers 16:30 – But if the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD.
    Numbers 16:33 – They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.
    Deuteronomy 32:22 – For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
    1 Samuel 2:6 – The Lord killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.
    1 Kings 2:9 – Now therefore hold him not guiltless: for thou art a wise man, and knowest what thou oughtest to do unto him; but his hoar head bring thou down to the grave with blood.
    2 Samuel 22:6 – The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;
    1 Kings 2:6 – Do therefore according to thy wisdom, and let not his hoar head go down to the grave in peace.
    Job 14:13 – O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
    Job 7:9 – As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
    Job 11:8 – It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
    Job 14:13 – O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
    Job 17:13 – If I wait, the grave is mine house: I have made my bed in the darkness.
    Job 17:16 – They shall go down to the bars of the pit, when our rest together is in the dust.
    Job 21:13 – They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave.
    Job 24:19 – Drought and heat consume the snow waters: so doth the grave those which have sinned.
    Job 26:6 – Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.
    Psalm 6:5 – For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
    Psalm 9:17 – The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
    Psalm 16:10 – For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
    Psalm 18:5 – The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.
    Psalm 30:3 – O Lord, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.
    Psalm 31:17 – Let me not be ashamed, O LORD; for I have called upon thee: let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave.
    Psalm 49:14 – Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.
    Psalm 49:15 – But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.
    Psalm 55:15 – Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.
    Psalm 86:13 – For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.
    Psalm 88:3 – For my soul is full of troubles: and my life draweth nigh unto the grave.
    Psalm 89:48 – What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.
    Psalm 116:3 – The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.
    Psalm 139:8 – If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
    Psalm 141:7 – Our bones are scattered at the grave’s mouth, as when one cutteth and cleaveth wood upon the earth.
    Proverbs 1:12 – Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:
    Proverbs 5:5 – Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.
    Proverbs 7:27 – Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.
    Proverbs 9:18 – But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.
    Proverbs 15:11 – Hell and destruction are before the Lord: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?
    Proverbs 15:24 – The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.
    Proverbs 23:14 – Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
    Proverbs 27:20 – Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.
    Proverbs 30:16 – The grave; and the barren womb; the earth that is not filled with water; and the fire that saith not, It is enough.
    Ecclesiastes 9:10 – Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
    Song of Solomon 8:6 – Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.
    Isaiah 5:14 – Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
    Isaiah 14:9 – Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
    Isaiah 14:11 – Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
    Isaiah 14:15 – Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
    Isaiah 28:15 – Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves
    Isaiah 28:18 – And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
    Isaiah 38:10 – I said in the cutting off of my days, I shall go to the gates of the grave: I am deprived of the residue of my years.
    Isaiah 38:18 – For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
    Isaiah 57:9 – And thou wentest to the king with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase thyself even unto hell.
    Ezekiel 31:15 – Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when he went down to the grave I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him.
    Ezekiel 31:16 – I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
    Ezekiel 31:17 – They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.
    Ezekiel 32:21 – The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
    Ezekiel 32:27 – And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.
    Hosea 13:14 – I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.
    Amos 9:2 – Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:
    Jonah 2:2 – And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
    Habakkuk 2:5 – Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people
     
  13. Baptist Believer

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    THE FOUR WORDS TRANSLATED “HELL” IN THE KING JAMES TRANSLATION OF THE BIBLE (PART 2)

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    NEW TESTAMENT — Three different Greek words, with different
    meanings, are all translated “hell” in the King James Translation of
    the New Testament
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ᾍδης

    hah’-dace — “Hades” — the “unseen place” of the dead

    Matthew 11:23 – And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
    Matthew 16:18 – And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
    Luke 10:15 – And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
    Luke 16:23 – And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
    Acts 2:27 – Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
    Acts 2:31 – He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
    Revelation 1:18 – I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
    Revelation 6:8 – And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
    Revelation 20:13 – And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    Revelation 20:14 – And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    γέεννα

    gheh’-en-nah — “Gehenna” — Valley of the sons of Hinnom
    (aka, “Valley of Fire” or “Valley of Slaughter”), a valley west
    and south of Jerusalem, also a symbolic name for the final place of
    punishment of the ungodly (see Jeremiah 7:30-34, 19:2–6)


    Matthew 5:22 – But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
    Matthew 5:29 – And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
    Matthew 5:30 – And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
    Matthew 10:28 – And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
    Matthew 18:9 – And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
    Matthew 23:15 – Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
    Matthew 23:33 – Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
    Mark 9:43 – And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched
    Mark 9:45 – And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched
    Mark 9:47 – And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire
    Luke 12:5 – But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
    James 3:6 – And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

    ταρταρώσας

    tar-tar-ōsas — “cast them to Tartarus” — a Greek name for the abode of the damned

    2 Peter 2:4 – For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment
     
  14. Baptist Believer

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    No kidding, but unless you are KJVO, you recognize that the text in the original languages should be our highest guide to understanding, not a 400-year-old translation in obsolete English where the translators used their own theology as a guide to inconsistently translate four different words for "hell."
     
  15. Yeshua1

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    Second death is Lake of Fire, and those in there are forever, not just smoked and gone! Revelation 14:11
     
  16. Salty

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    I posted that only because Van said in post 25, "My point is that "Hell" cannot be found in scripture. ...."
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Hopefully you have understood that "Hell" is a made up name, but Hades, Gehenna, Lake of Fire and Eternal Fire are found in scripture. You cannot say "Hell" is the Lake of Fire or Gehenna, because the mistranslation in the KJV also renders Hades, and Sheol as "Hell."
     
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  18. Salty

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    What I understand is that "hell" is in the KJV Bible 54 times, 32 times in the NKJV, 13 times in the NIV, 13 times in the NASB, and 14 times in the ESV.
    and I never said that Hell is the Lake of Fire!
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    There is no "Hell" in reality, only Hades, Gehenna, Abyss, Lake of Fire, Eternal Fire and Sheol. Citing mistranslations as if they support the existence of "Hell" does not move the ball. How many times did you find "Hell" in YLT?
     
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  20. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    So the King James version is not reality!
    I see you only use one version There are many other versions. but then again, lets use the Jevoha Witness Bible?

    Look - this is semantics.!

    Much ado about nothing.
    From this side - My discussion has ended!
     
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