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Catholics Continue

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Earth Wind and Fire

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For 32 years I was taught that by jumping the sacraments that I obtain my place in heaven. Now you’re saying that isn’t the case! So I just click my heels, say I believe in Christ and I am heaven bound! Really?!? So what happened to the immediacy of infant baptism, communism, confession (cleansing the soul), the importance of weekly mass yada yada. Don’t Catholics still count mortal and venial sins anymore cause I was taught that the 10 commandments had sway over the mortal sins and the rest had your soul spending time on the bench.
 

Adonia

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We call them "sacraments", the things that people adhere to as they attempt to live holy lives. I understand you do not use the word to describe things like we do, but which of them don't you agree with? Is it marriage? Repentance? Ordination of clergy? Baptism? Confirmation? (the recognizing of the Holy Spirit). Holy Communion? The anointing of the sick? They are all valid scriptural concepts and surely you cannot in good conscience disagree with any one of them.

Venial and mortal sins are still recognized. Once again, they are just words used to describe the severity of sins. Is grabbing an apple at the grocery store and eating it while shopping without paying for it on par with murdering someone? I don't think so.
 

Salty

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We call them "sacraments", the things that people adhere to as they attempt to live holy lives. I understand you do not use the word to describe things like we do, but which of them don't you agree with?.......Ordination of clergy? ...They are all valid scriptural concepts and surely you cannot in good conscience disagree with any one of them. ...

I start with this one! Ordain clergy - good ideal - BUT not
required-- and many Baptist pastors are NOT ordained!
 

Earth Wind and Fire

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We call them "sacraments", the things that people adhere to as they attempt to live holy lives. I understand you do not use the word to describe things like we do, but which of them don't you agree with? Is it marriage? Repentance? Ordination of clergy? Baptism? Confirmation? (the recognizing of the Holy Spirit). Holy Communion? The anointing of the sick? They are all valid scriptural concepts and surely you cannot in good conscience disagree with any one of them.

Venial and mortal sins are still recognized. Once again, they are just words used to describe the severity of sins. Is grabbing an apple at the grocery store and eating it while shopping without paying for it on par with murdering someone? I don't think so.
I do not delineate sin from sin....they all start in the mind. Then regarding sacraments, I don’t believe in baptism as being critical to ones salvation, nor do I see receiving communion as being a step in my salvation. Honestly, I don’t see sacraments as critical factors to my salvation. However the Catholic Church always taught they were necessary. Let’s take infant baptism for example. In my day a baby Had to be baptized soon after it’s birth because without that sacrament, should it die then it’s soul would go to a place called Limbo (not heaven and not hell— but a place of separation), and of course no parent wants that.

Now if I didn’t go to mass each Sunday, then I couldn’t receive communion and thus not warrant the Grace necessary to go to heaven should I die then and there. Honestly I always disputed that as a kid and now as an adult. That Grace is “Freely Provided” by the Holy Spirit not metted out by the RCC for jumping the hoops of their system.

And I don’t need to go to any priest to confess my sins to.... that’s bowing to another flawed human to give me absolution ( and that’s Gods responsibility, not theirs ).
 
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Walter

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I start with this one! Ordain clergy - good ideal - BUT not
required-- and many Baptist pastors are NOT ordained!

Not ordained and NOT much formal education. Compare the education of Catholic clergy to that of Baptist clergy. Not necessarily a criticism, but a comparison.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

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Not ordained and NOT much formal education. Compare the education of Catholic clergy to that of Baptist clergy. Not necessarily a criticism, but a comparison.
Then there is the Catholic vow of chastity. Baptist clearly don’t sign on to that.
 

Walter

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Then there is the Catholic vow of chastity. Baptist clearly don’t sign on to that.

It always makes me wonder why so many on the board focus on the discipline of celibacy for priests of the Latin Rite of The Catholic Church when every other rite of the Catholic Church has married priest. I know you live in an area of the U.S. that has other rites of the Catholic Church represented. I attended a Maronite Catholic Church in Utica., NY which had several married priest. Btw, The Maronite Rite is the only Eastern Rite Church which has liturgies which date back to the 1st and 2nd centuries.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

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It always makes me wonder why so many on the board focus on the discipline of celibacy for priests of the Latin Rite of The Catholic Church when every other rite of the Catholic Church has married priest. I know you live in an area of the U.S. that has other rites of the Catholic Church represented. I attended a Maronite Catholic Church in Utica., NY which had several married priest. Btw, The Maronite Rite is the only Eastern Rite Church which has liturgies which date back to the 1st and 2nd centuries.
I’ve never seen a married priest during my 32 years as a Roman Catholic. However I’ve experienced plenty of priestly pedofiles who have internally recked most Catholic communities beyond reclamation. And that’s a sad thing that could have been controlled... but I digress.

it is my understanding that the RCC teaches a systematic “sacramental” approach to attaining salvation.... is that true (yes or no).
 

Adonia

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I start with this one! Ordain clergy - good ideal - BUT not
required-- and many Baptist pastors are NOT ordained!

Not required? How many times is the "laying on of hands" mentioned in the scriptures when it came to picking out another apostle or sending someone out to do the Lords work. That is not an ordination?
 

Adonia

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I’ve never seen a married priest during my 32 years as a Roman Catholic. However I’ve experienced plenty of priestly pedofiles who have internally recked most Catholic communities beyond reclamation. And that’s a sad thing that could have been controlled... but I digress.

it is my understanding that the RCC teaches a systematic “sacramental” approach to attaining salvation.... is that true (yes or no).

So, you've experienced many priestly pedophiles? Okay, how many? Where? What years? In all my life I have never experienced one and that includes 8 years of parochial school.
 

Adonia

Well-Known Member
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It always makes me wonder why so many on the board focus on the discipline of celibacy for priests of the Latin Rite of The Catholic Church when every other rite of the Catholic Church has married priest. I know you live in an area of the U.S. that has other rites of the Catholic Church represented. I attended a Maronite Catholic Church in Utica., NY which had several married priest. Btw, The Maronite Rite is the only Eastern Rite Church which has liturgies which date back to the 1st and 2nd centuries.

The scriptures never say that a celibate clergy is forbidden, so I do not understand how our Sola Scriptura friends came up with that one.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

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So, you've experienced many priestly pedophiles? Okay, how many? Where? What years? In all my life I have never experienced one and that includes 8 years of parochial school.
Pennsylvania.... look up Old Forge, St. Mary’s.... both went to prison.

St Joseph’s in Mendam NJ

Our Lady of the Mountain in Long Valley NJ... priest quietly resigned and was replaced.

The 1st two were particularly egregious....need I elaborate?
 

Yeshua1

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We call them "sacraments", the things that people adhere to as they attempt to live holy lives. I understand you do not use the word to describe things like we do, but which of them don't you agree with? Is it marriage? Repentance? Ordination of clergy? Baptism? Confirmation? (the recognizing of the Holy Spirit). Holy Communion? The anointing of the sick? They are all valid scriptural concepts and surely you cannot in good conscience disagree with any one of them.

Venial and mortal sins are still recognized. Once again, they are just words used to describe tould see all of them as being sacraments vested by God with additional saving grace, buthe severity of sins. Is grabbing an apple at the grocery store and eating it while shopping without paying for it on par with murdering someone? I don't think so.
You see them all as granting extra sacramental graces towards you, but how much required to skip Purgatory then?
 

Yeshua1

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Not ordained and NOT much formal education. Compare the education of Catholic clergy to that of Baptist clergy. Not necessarily a criticism, but a comparison.
One can learn much more real theology at a Baptist school than Catholic one!
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
So, you've experienced many priestly pedophiles? Okay, how many? Where? What years? In all my life I have never experienced one and that includes 8 years of parochial school.

I do see your point there - - this comes under: Dog bites man - no news - man bites dog = news.
Yes, there have been many many cases of RCC priests being guilty of this
but we have to keep in mind that since the RCC is an extremly large organization
the ones who are guilty is a very small % of the total.
There are currently about 37,000 RCC priests. So, lets say 1,000 are guilty - that would be about 3%.
Granted, even one case is one to many-
 

Salty

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The scriptures never say that a celibate clergy is forbidden, so I do not understand how our Sola Scriptura friends came up with that one.

But is it required?? I Timothy states that a pastor is to be the Husband of one wife (that we agree - only men and not women) and that he
is to rule his home (including children)
 
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