Featured The High Priestly Prayer

Jon,
I'm not accusing anyone who disgrees with me as rejecting Scripture.

I'm flat-out telling you what Scripture says...
That anyone who rejects God's word, is not saved.
Period.

There is a difference.
Do you understand the difference?

For example:

Two people profess Christ.
One is "teachable" and their understanding of Scripture increases and becomes clearer the more effort they put into studying His word.
The other never increases in their understanding no matter how much they study His word, never bears true spiritual fruit, and always fights against parts ( or all ) of God's word.

Which one is saved and has the Holy Spirit indwelling them?

 

I used to never have that problem. The older generation of Calvinists knew what they believed and did not care what I believed. The New Calvinists, the Mohler followers in particular, see my theology as deficient, wrong, and they have appointed themselves as my teachers.

 

Read my post again, I've edited it.

 

No one founds a church, builds it from the ground and calls the shots...except a person who has a controlling personality and sets up a dictatorship.
He may be honestly wanting to honor God, but his church setup will quelch the spiritual growth of his congregation by banning anyone who calls for the supremacy of Christ in all things.

Such a one ruler approach to church is a red flag for a possible cult. (Not calling your friend a cult leader, only stating that such a government is ripe for a possible cult.)

 

Its dishonest, disingenuous, caustic, inflammatory and just plain wrong. Such an idea is not even logical. Honestly Im not sure why such accusations are allowed.

People are going to differ in interpretations on this board. If one cannot discuss those differences without such accusations then it shows the desperation of those who cannot defend their positions with reason and scripture.

 

What does "logic" have to do with it?

Yet the problem remains in an infinite loop.
The same people make the same assertions over sometimes decades, and their thinking never changes.

How can they both have the same Spirit?

At some point you have to answer the question...
Who is saved and who is not?

The Bible actually does allow believers a modicum of determining that.
For example:

"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." ( 2 Timothy 3:5 )
" Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." ( Matthew 7:15 ).

" A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself." ( Titus 3:10-11 ).

Regardless of what this board allows and does not allow, God's word does indeed allow believers the right to determine who is saved and who is not, after a fashion.

I'm experiencing no desperation at all, and to me, you're acting as if reason and Scripture have not been tried.

They have.
Repeatedly.

 

Then we go our separate ways.
Denominationalism 101.

At some point truth has to be established, Jon.
Scripture is not relative.

 

Can both be guided by God, yet conclude different understanding from God's word?

I agree that in both cases we want to see what we want to see in scripture and it is hard to overcome that bias. I read the book of Job and I see that very argument flowing from the antagonist and the protagonist in the dialogue.
Praise God that in the book of Job, God himself does not stay silent. Otherwise, I'm afraid all those men would have spent a lifetime at the Baptist Board bickering until God closed the thread...

 

I'm going to bow out now, as this thread seems to be going exactly the same direction as every thread about this subject.

We keep re-hashing the same points, only to see the same people hold to the same perspectives, and nothing changes.
Again, there's a problem, and apparently no one seems to think that it's one.

No one seems to be making the connection that for people to remain not like-minded in doctrine for what amounts to their entire lives, then it's indicative of something far more serious "under the hood".



Good day to you all.

 

In general, I agree with you. He is not that way. He might get that way, but he is not that way now. He set tis church up this way because he was majorly stabbed in the back earlier in his ministry. He was not willing to come several hundred thousand out of pocket and get kicked out again. He baptized slightly over 900 last year so he is winning souls. I personally dont go to his church because his teaching is very shallow. By the same token, I am not going to go to his church and try to tell him what to preach.

 

If ones purpose in being on this board or engaging in a particular thread is to change peoples mind then you are going to find yourself frustrated.

If your response to the personal frustration is posting a temper tantrum and declare one is bowing out or leaving cuz no one will see things as you do then that is exactly what one needs to do.

Having reasonable discussions requires respect for differing views and humility requires understanding that some portion or all of our view may be wrong.

If the only way to hold on to your view with confidence is to lack humility and to have respect for views other than your own then that says more about you than it does those with whom you disagree.

 

That is a possibility, but it is not a necessary truth. For example there are mature members of the JW who have studied the scriptures and hold the sincere belief that scripture teaches that the Father alone is God and Jesus is the greatest of his created beings “ho theos” ... a divine being, but not the great “I AM”. They actually are scripturally incorrect.

I am not qualified to make such a distinction about the “MONERGISM” vs “SYNERGISM” Sotierology debate, but it is not an absolute certainty that one is not correct and the other incorrect. That is actually a real possibility.

For me, there is too little to be gained by simply proving a position “correct” at the expense of things that Christ places a far clearer emphasis on (like Love for “one another” and “unity in essentials”). However, that is not the same as denying there is a TRUTH and that TRUTH is knowable.

 

Is it possible that some or all of your view is wrong?