Featured Biblical Penal Substitution

JonC, it seems you have gone a long way to try twist penal substitution. You have muddied up the waters unnecessarily, in my opinion. You position reads more like a conspiracy theory.

 

I have to admit, I read your post several times and don’t see the difference you are making between the two theories of penal substitution theories mentioned.

It appears your view stands on the difference between a “passover sacrifice” and an “atonement sacrifice”, with you believing Jesus died on Passover.

That seems unlikely, based on scripture that He and apostles took the Passover meal the day prior to His death.

If your belief relies heavily on His death on the Passover, I don’t see how it can be supported by scripture.

peace to you

 

Penal Substitution is rooted in the character of God. 'Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts!' How can God be holy, just and righteous and yet justify the ungodly (Romans 5:6)?

For me the key text (or one of them) is Romans 3:23-26. 'for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed......'
So Christ was offered as a propitiation - that is, a sacrifice that turns away wrath - to demonstrate, not God's love (though there are many texts that show that) but His justice. The cross showed that God had been just to pass over the sins of the elect Israelites in the past, although the blood of bulls and goats can never take away sins (Hebrews 10:11). Those sacrifices pointed and looked forward to the Lord Jesus Christ who would in due course offer one perfect sacrifice for sins which would satisfy God's wrath against His people forever and those who looked past the dead animals to the coming Messiah were saved.
'.......To demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.' And also for us today, God is just in justifying the ungodly because sin has been punished, the righteousness of God upheld because Christ, who knew no sin, willingly became sin for us and bore the punishment for it that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

 

Your version of it, bujt where is the wrath of God propitiated and appeased for in your substitution view?
and again, you are saying that the reformers all were wrong on this issue, not biblical their views, yet its just as biblical and even more so then your view expressed here!

 

His Pst viewpoint is not pst as has been defined and commonly held since time of reformation!

 

The common held and defined pst viewpoint has been that of the reformers such as Luther and Calvin, correct?

 

The key distinction pst from other atonement views would be that the wrath of God actually was and is atoned for and propitiated now by Christ!
Without that, how can God be holy and also able to freely forgive and justify lost sinners?

 

From what you posted, I see two events. The first is the death of Jesus as propitiation. That evolves penal substitution. The second is resurrection/exaltation of Jesus. That involves Christus Victor.

The two are linked, of course, but not the same event. Perhaps a good argument is that penal substitution laid the foundation for Christus Victor as did all other aspects of the life of Jesus.

Perhaps you could explain exactly how your view of penal substitution differs from 15th-16th century reformers view and how that relates to a Passover sacrifice verses an atonement sacrifice?

peace to you

 

This is the part that i do not believe is actually Biblical, thus making the modern Penal Substituionary Atonement, in some form, incorrect. Scripture clearly teaches:

Romans 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Ephesians 2:3
At one time we all lived among them, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead--Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.

Another aspect of the Penal Substitionary Atonement that modern proponents adhere to is that the "spiritual death" of Christ is what actually atoned for our sin. That is also incorrect. It was the physical death, the blood of Jesus Christ that atoned for our sin. The passage i mentioned above states that and many others:

Colossians 1:20; 22
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross

yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach

 

Could you give an example of someone or group that holds to the spiritual death atonement theory. I have never heard of this before.

peace to you

 

Greetings to you, brother. Just wait a few minutes/hours and you'll see some posts on here that will tell you Jesus experienced spiritual death in order to justify us. If they don't, i will get you the info you ask about.

 

I have been contemplating this a lot myself.

Jesus died for us--this doesn't mean He necessarily died "instead" of us, but He died "For" us. Meaning, He didn't "die in our place" (we all still physically die), but that His death was "For our benefit". Like giving a gift at Christmas--I bought this FOR you.

But i will say, 1 Peter 3:18 does bring in some form of PSA:

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.

which still shows it was His physical death that accomplished the work of God.

He died willingly for our sins.

 

Thanks for the post. I will take some time to evaluate the difference, if any, between Jesus dying “instead of us” and Jesus dying “for us” as it concerns the punishment for sin
and the wrath of God.

Perhaps you could explain why dying “for us” is distinctly tied to penal substitution Christus Victor and not penal substitution atonement?

peace to you

 

Greetings to you as well. I’ll watch for the posts. Thanks

peace to you