Calvinism and Arminianism foreknowledge compared with respect to time

" Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began," ( 2 Timothy 1:9 )

 

Of their own freed will.
It's called being "born again"

" Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." ( James 1:19=8 ).

 

Are you a "Baptist" @Derf B ?
If so, please take a look at this:

http://www.baptistcenter.net/confessions/First_London_Baptist_Confession_of_Faith_1646.pdf

Many "Baptists" ( what those who opposed believer's baptism began to call those who hold to it long ago ) once agreed to this.
I do, and many on this forum do.

Most Baptists nowadays, do not.

 

Keep up your studies in His precious word, sir.

There's a lot more to the good news of salvation than Jesus death, burial and resurrection...
But that is indeed the Gospel in summary ( 1 Corinthians 15:1-7 ).

There's a reason Christ came to live a perfect life, suffer and die for those who would believe, and rose again and sits at the right hand of the Father until He comes again...
and I guarantee that it is not to make salvation "possible".

Here's a passage that has come to mean something special to me:

" But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." ( Titus 3:4-7 ).

 

"Prevenient Grace" is not found in the Bible.
"Irresistible Grace" is God graciously exchanging man's heart of stone ( willful and rebellious towards Him and His ways ) for a heart of flesh that is tender towards Him and His ways.
See Ezekiel 11:19 and Ezekiel 36:26.

Most Baptists call it God giving a person a new "want to".
The Bible calls it the new birth.

 

It is of course your prerogative to accuse me of following Augistine, but I assure you that I do not, Barry.

But if my word does not convince you, then it is your right to bear false witness against me.
Even so, I am not your Judge, sir.

We have a Judge, and He sits at the right hand of the Father.

 

Which one would you have me confess? The 1644 version, or the “more correct” one from 1646?
“The first edition was published in 1644. This second edition "corrected and enlarged" was originally published in 1646.”
Am I only a proper baptist if holding to the latter? And what about the “second” baptist confession? Does it not even merit your mention?

If you’d like to point out where I’m not being a good Baptist according to your confession of choice, we can discuss it. Otherwise, let’s continue the conversation, shall we?

 

No one is saved by the ' death ' of Christ.

 

Ok Jesus did not die 'for those who 'would ' believe ' He died to pay for the sins of the whole world . The entire cosmos actually .
Everything, including all the sins that were not ' redeemed ' , but only covered by the old testament sacrifices.
Yes we are not saved by works . Eph 2 . 8and 9 . We are saved by Jesus . We are Justified by Grace not works . After we Hear and believe the Gospel we recieve all the blessings in him who is the only Elect preexisting saviour from before the foundation of the world. Jesus is not subject to a gnostic election in the mind of God . You.were not In Jesus in any sense before you existed .

 

According to your scheme your saved by election not the work of Jesus . The Gospel is just an ' awakening ' for the frozen chosen .

 

God purposed of course that Jews and Gentiles would all be saved by faith not works

 

A short video on the Biblical meaning of foreknowledge.

 

" Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied." ( 1 Peter 1:2 ).
Election, according to Scripture, took place before anyone was born.
People do not become chosen in this life...
They are chosen, and the effects of that choice are then carried out by God in real time.

 

Salvation is not by faith.
It is through it.
Ephesians 2:8-10.

It's a gift, not a reward.
Faith, eternal life, and many other things are given to believers by God.

We don' earn them through our own efforts, sir.

 

How can God see something he did not create when he created all things?

 

According to what Scripture teaches, we are saved by grace.

That grace extends first to the life, death burial and resurrection of His Son, who was given for us and to us.
The work of Jesus is what the Father looks upon, and His shed blood, to redeem us.
Christ's perfect work is then imputed to us as righteousness...

For our own righteousness is as filthy rags in His sight.

 

Were those sins actually paid for?
Everyone's?

 

My point is to show you that, contrary to popular belief, there were and are many Baptists who disagree with you, and find no problem recognizing that God's choice of the sinner to salvation, and that belief in Jesus Christ being a by product of it, was indeed what they confessed.

You are free to accept or reject it as you are convinced.

 

Romans 8:29-30.
Ephesians 1:4-5.
Psalms 139.
Jeremiah 1:5.

" For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." ( Ephesians 2:10 ).
" [Even] every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him." ( Isaiah 43:7 ).

Ephesians 2:1-10 as a passage, is even more descriptive.
There are many more, Barry.

Each and every child of God was in the mind of Jesus Christ when He went to the cross:

 

Of course . The bible actually says he died for the sins of the whole world .