Featured Does God allow us the free will to choose Him?

Others have provided you volumes of scripture to support their views and refute yours. You have refused to address those passages and have dismissed them out of hand, as you have my much shorter posts.

As I have said before, it is clear you do not want a civil discussion on this issue. You seem only willing to vent your opinions and attack everyone that disagrees.

I’ll save my efforts for those willing to engage in civil conversation.

thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

You will not accept the very thing that God has purposed to do.
This sounds like rebellion against the revealed word of God.
I looked over that site you quoted from,[Knowing-jesus}, it had much false teaching that denied scripture all over the place. It is not possible for you to come to truth if you are thinking that teaching is solid at all.

 

We don't know what happens to babies when they die. We can only apply the scriptures. An elect baby will become a Christian. A non-elect baby will not. An elect person will become a Christian. A non-elect person will not.

Romans 9:10-13

10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

You said that we hold a disgraceful view of God. Yet, the scripture, clearly demonstrates God does choose. Twins in the womb, one was chosen the other not chosen.

If this is what God said (and it is) who are you to question it?

 

from the1689;section3
3._____ Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )

 

from your website you quoted from;
Salvation:

This whole statement is defective with out of context verses

 

It comes from the human spirit

 

I’ve thought on that

 

Miss E, One must accept that all humans are in a dark dungeon of sin of which there is no escape. One must also accept that the sinful rebellion of all humanity against God means that God is under no compulsion to free humans from the dungeon of their own making. Finally, one must understand that a God of love and justice would be both loving and just if he chose to never free humans from their prison.
For example, is God unloving and evil because he has chosen to never save Satan or any of the fallen angels?
Would you call God an evil God because demons have no chance that God will ever save them?
If the answer is no, you wouldn't call God evil, why then would you call God evil if he never chose to save a human, who is fallen in sin, just like the demons? Do you not think of yourself as though you were a fallen wretch, like a demon? Why do you harbor the idea that you are somehow better, when you have openly been in rebellion against God (and so have I). How do we dare to imagine we are somehow worthy of God saving us and therefore he must offer salvation to all or else God is evil? Such a thought comes from the evil within us, not from God.
The famous hymn writer, John Newton, knew his position when he wrote, "amazing grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me." He said about himself, what everyone one of us should say. He knew his position as a man no better than the demons and he marveled that God would choose to save him.
Scripture is so very clear about our position and the fact that the prison of sin locked us up in the darkest prison. I implore you to see yourself as God sees you. A wretch who deserves hell and damnation. If you harbor thoughts of your own self-righteousness, you are harboring a lie from hell. Both you and I are wretched before God. There is literally nothing about us that God views as good. All of our righteousness is as filthy rags.
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Please, by the goodness of God, see your position before the King and know that if he chose to save one person and no other, it would be a jaw dropping thing. Yet God has chosen to save millions upon millions over the millenniums. What wondrous love is this?
Do not for one second think that the position I hold is one where I don't see the amazing love of God. I know I would never have chosen God. I was in rebellion. He had to choose me and set me free by his grace. I was so wretched, I cannot fathom what he ever saw in me. Then I realize, he didn't see anything in me. He chose me for unexplainable reasons and all I can say is that my heart is eternally grateful. How I wish you could understand what I now know to be true. A wretch like me has been saved by grace, apart from any choice I made or anything I did. To God be all the glory.

 

This wise answer leaves their destiny 100% in Gods hands.God is only Holy, and wise.

 

Where does faith come from? See, What I have gained from your posts is an ability to close your eyes to the truth. I don't mean that in a negative comment on what you believe. Yes, faith comes from hearing, What about people who will never hear the gospel? Can they be redeemed?

Where, not how or when or what. WHERE does faith come from?

 

You often accuse us of making things up, and then demand we show you scripture. We have shown you scripture. I have addressed your 'baby' questions. I've seen this attempt at trying to shame people by the mere mention of babies. It won't work with me, and if I understand other posters here they won't either. Doctrinally unless you are a Pelagian, this won't work. What works for you assumes that there is some age of accountably. There is no scripture that even hints at this. I know that some Baptist churches teach it, but they are "making things up".

Romans 9:17-21

17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

 

David provides a glimpse of the hope we have regarding children.
2 Samuel 12:18-23 On the seventh day the child died. And the servants of David were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they said, “Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spoke to him, and he did not listen to us. How then can we say to him the child is dead? He may do himself some harm.” But when David saw that his servants were whispering together, David understood that the child was dead. And David said to his servants, “Is the child dead?” They said, “He is dead.” Then David arose from the earth and washed and anointed himself and changed his clothes. And he went into the house of the Lord and worshiped. He then went to his own house. And when he asked, they set food before him, and he ate. Then his servants said to him, “What is this thing that you have done? You fasted and wept for the child while he was alive; but when the child died, you arose and ate food.” He said, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept, for I said, ‘Who knows whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?’ But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.”

David indicates he has faith that his child is with God. For those of us who have lost children in the womb, may we have the faith of David.

 

Miss E, you are making excuses. The view shared with you is far more biblically solid than what you have shared. You have shared a potshot of sentences from different places, out of context, to create your position. We have shared passages, in context, to show our position and why we hold it. You are telling yourself a lie when you say we're unbiblical.
Second, you have created an image of holy, fair, and all-loving creator based upon what you think is holy, fair and all loving. In essence, you have created God in Your Image, rather than acknowledging that God created Adam in His image, Adam fell and all of Adam's offspring are in the image of fallen Adam. We are not like God. We are corrupted image bearers. Therefore, we cannot make God in our image without corrupting God.

I laid out why God, choosing persons, is an amazing act of love and grace. I also laid out why God, not choosing a person is an act of love and justice. God is love, but you don't seem to want or care for the God of justice. What you want is a God who promotes democracy and freedom of choice, rather than a God who is the Sovereign King. Now, I implore you to read the Bible and see if Jesus portrays himself as a President over a democracy, or whether he portrays himself as a King over his Sovereign Kingdom.

So, you can disagree, but you cannot honestly say we are unbiblical, nor can you honestly say we have twisted scripture. That is a lie you are telling yourself. If you wish to lie to yourself, so be it.

 

Does God allow us the free will to choose Him?

Of course. God actively prevents no person from choosing to do good or call upon His mercy. The question is really "Why do some call upon the mercy of the One True God and others build a "golden calf" for themselves?

I have no wisdom to speak for "all", but in my case GOD CHOSE ME and snatched me out of the world as surely as Saul on the road to Damascus. I tried really hard to believe Wesleyan Arminianism like the Churches that God sent me to for love and fellowship, but the reality of my personal salvation experience made it impossible. YOU may have chosen CHRIST ... that is above my pay grade ... but I know for certain that CHRIST chose ME (for no reason other than "He felt like it").

God Bless,
Arthur

 

Did they choose to do good?

That is the question that I always ask when people point to a command in the OT to do good as proof that a person can do good in their own power. God told Adam to obey, did he? God warned Cain, did Cain listen? God gave Blessings and Curses through Moses, did Israel choose blessings?

Since you have already studied the passage in Ezekiel, does Israel choose to do good, follow God and live?
[Without looking up the answer, I'm betting that he answer is "no".]

God commands and warns so that we are "without excuse" ... (I offered no lame excuse for my sin. I sinned because I knew right from wrong and I chose wrong. There was no mystery.)

 

Jesus told a parable about a sheep that wandered off and a Shepherd that went looking for it, found it, and carried it back to the safety of His home and flock. In my personal case, Jesus came looking for me and carried me home (I was not searching for Him).

So in your personal case, were you a lost lamb/sheep searching for the Shepherd before He found you?