Featured God is Completely Sovereign or in Control of EVERYTHING that happens. PT 2

Thank you for trying so hard to not say anything.

 

While the idiom "in charge" is a vague term, I'm assuming that means that you believe "God controls everything" since that is the title of the thread. If you mean "in charge" the same way Trump is "in charge", I would say you have gone too far in the opposite direction. Please try to stop using vague idioms.

1 Corinthians 2:8 CSB
None of the rulers of this age knew this wisdom, because if they had known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Paul does not attribute the crucifixion to God. One could say God tricked them, but that is not the same as God controlling every aspect of it like how far the nails when in.

Acts 2:23 CSB
Though he was delivered up according to God’s determined plan and foreknowledge, you used lawless people to nail him to a cross and kill him.

Jesus delivering himself to the powers was part of God's plan. At no point does the passage say that God controlled the lawless people who nailed Jesus to the cross.

Acts 4:27-28 ESV
for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, [28] to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.

It's a difficult passage in translation, but it was Jesus, whom God anointed to do whatever His hand and His plan had predestined to take place. This is clear when taken in context with the rest of the Bible.

 

Come on, man! Let's have a sensible discussion!

 

God punishes all with death. He would not be good if he did not. In the case of Abel and elect believers, he uses death as a means of our escaping to Heaven.

 

Not my quote. Though you are right. MB was the first to use the idiom - not you. I apologize for the false accusation.

I still hate idioms like this because the meaning is so varied, I spend too much time trying to find out what the other person actually means.

 

My apologies for confusing you with @MB. Let's look at the rest of your post.

I'm not sure of the point you're making here. The wisdom of God is hidden, and He reveals it to whom He will. And although these rulers crucified our Lord, never the less it 'Pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief.'

Lawless men did what God's plan had determined. Neither I nor any Calvinist that I'm aware of believes that God forces men to do what they don't want to do. They did their will upon the Lord Jesus, and were culpable for doing it but none the less they were doing exactly what God had determined should happen (Luke 22:22).

No. Your exegesis is grammatically flawed.
'Jesus' is in the accusative (Gk. Iesoun). Herod and the others are in the Nominative. They are the subject both of the main sentence and the subordinate clause. They gathered against our Lord to do the very thing that God's wisdom and mercy had determined should take place.
That does not mean that Herod & Co were unwilling participants; they followed their own wicked impulses; but what they meant for evil, God overruled for good (cf. Genesis 50:20).

 

If Cain was of the devil then He was under the control of the devil.Out of God's control.
MB

 

Nothing is out of God's control. The Lord Jesus told the 'Jews,' "You are of your father the devil (John 8:44), but they were not out of God's control either. 'My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure........Indeed, I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it' (Isaiah 46:10-11).
Satan is a dog on a chain. He can go just so far and no further (Job 1:12; 2:6; James 4:7).

 

I'm Sorry there is nothing in your reference that suggest control. God knows all things as it explained as I read on but no control.
MB

 

I have no problem with them yet you have not shown that God is in control of every thing.
MB

 

I never brought up Chess someone else did I just answered there post.. How ever it is a game about controlling your opponents moves until Check mate. God can do what ever He wants but I don't believe He does this at all. God's work is all about influence. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Depending on the determination behind it.
MB

 

Satan did not sin. Satan rebelled. Adam did not sin, he disobeyed one command, and then sin entered the world. Cain killed Abel and let sin into Paradise.

We have injustice, because that is the reward of our actions. Our best actions are filthy rags.

Worship is NOT what God commands or demands. That is a pagan religious notion. He does command not to place other gods before Him. Exodus 20:3-7
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

If worship comes out of us, it is because we were created to worship. For it is out of willingness. It even comes out of a soul in slave to sin.
Revelation 5:13
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

God simply wants trust and obedience.
Hebrews 11:6
"And without trusting, it is impossible to be well pleasing to God, because whoever approaches him must trust that he does exist and that he becomes a Rewarder to those who seek him out."

 

Abel died in Paradise. Where else could he go?

 

Cain was in control. That is the problem. Cain was listening to his own thoughts.

Satan was like Cain listening to his own thoughts.

They were two of a kind, but not kinfolk. Cain was a son of God. Satan was an angel. They both were obsessive compulsive, and thought too much. It is not a bad thing, but they could not keep their thoughts under control and both let their thoughts control them, instead of them being in control of their thoughts.

 

I'll start with this.

I did not say "God forces men to do what they don't want to do." I used the exact wording for the title of this thread.

God is Completely Sovereign or in Control of EVERYTHING that happens

I am not trying to straw man you or anyone else. That is why I used the word "control".

But yes, I agree, even John Calvin didn't believe "God forces men to do what they don't want to do". However, John Calvin did believe that God not only caused men to do everything they did, God also caused them to want to do it. You can read about this in his pamphlet "No Mere Permission."

That is of course what "in control of everything that happens" means to me in American English when relating to this particular subject. If you don't agree with John Calvin, then I was discussing something with someone who turned out not to be there and I apologize for wasting your time.

 

God doesn't do what he wills?

God is just a persuader? Sometimes he is a good persuader and sometimes he is a poor persuader? This all depends on how determined God is, at any point in time, regarding the amount and verocity of persuasion he brings? God sometimes brings his A game and sometimes he brings his B, C, D or F game?
Perhaps God is Michael Jordan?

 

It is hard for me to follow what you are writing. However, one thing is clear. You started a thread which was suppose to be about Job and you are now talking about everything but the book of Job. To me, it seems like you are hijacking your own thread. If you don't want to talk about the book of Job, just start a new post.