A Complaint About A Lack of Logic

Indeed. The warning to Shimei uses the same exact Hebrew phrase—dying, you will die. Meaning, the moment you cross that bridge, your death will become certain.

 

Your example is fallacious in itself. Adam was not SFAIK ticketed for speeding. If you have Biblical evidence that he was I'm sure we all want to hear it.
What possible sense does it make to tell your son, "If you do not clean your room you are grounded, and if you do clean your room you're still grounded"?

We have been through this stuff before. If you speed, you get a ticket; if you don't speed, you don't get a ticket. If you drop litter you get a fine; if you don't drop litter you don't get a fine. And so on.

It is my belief that Adam was in fact under the whole of the Moral Law, but that is not the point. God told him that if he ate the fruit he would die; he ate it and he died; if he hadn't eaten it, he wouldn't have died or God is a liar, like the robber who says, "Give me your watch or I'll shoot; you give him your watch and he still shoots. You may think of God being like that, but I don't.

Bringing your fallen human 'logic' and pitting it against the word of God is unwise.

 

It's it obvious by now that "them" = all mankind is in God's image.

It's obvious by now the phrase "in that day" is a death sentence to be carried out later. If you can come up with something fresh, share it. otherwise, drop it.

 

The fall does not change the truth man is made in the image of God, see Genesis 9:6.

 

Silly.

 

If I was suggesting this, you might have a point, but I'm not. You are reading that into what I'm saying. If you were ever a Calvinist as you claim, you know what the argument is.

What IF Adam did not eat of the fruit but got drunk and killed Eve. By your standard God would be powerless. The point is your argument is wrong. I think that most can at least see it is wrong.[/QUOTE]
So why didn't God just cut to the chase and say, "Adam you're going to die whether you eat the apple or not."
The fact is that there was no death until Adam fell, and there was afterwards. Romans 5:12ff passim.

 

Not silly at all. Fact. Genesis 7:22. 'All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, all that was on the dry land, perished.'

 

Galatians 5:7. More later.

 

It is silly to think plants are not a living thing.

 

Hi JD731, I pretty much agree with your understanding of scripture, but I have a few nitpicks which you may or may not incorporate.

1) Rather than what changed about Adam, I think the idea is what changed about Adam and his descendants as a consequence of the Fall.

2) Assuming on that day refers to a 24 hour day, and Adam did not physically die on the day he ate the forbidden fruit, but physically lived another 900+ years, Adam must have "spiritually" died on that day. Spiritually he was somehow "separated" from God, and that separation is called spiritual death and the result is to be spiritually dead. However, the consequence of being "spiritually dead" is not defined, so some speculate the result is "total spiritual inability" but that is obviously false. The people of Romans 1:20 had enough spiritual ability in their fallen state to understand God's attributes from what He has made so they are without excuse.

3) We know that Adam volitionally sinned, rather than being deceived. 1 Timothy 2:14, Romans 5:14 where the people without the Law still physically died, yet they had not sinned like Adam sinned, i.e. violating what they knew was God's command.

4) We know that as a consequence of the Fall, all "in Adam" die. (1 Corinthians 15:22) And we are made sinners. Romans 5:19 And I think by logical necessity being made sinners means we are made separated from God thus made spiritually dead.

5) As a created human, we have our human spirit which God forms within us, Zechariah 12:1 We also have a soul.1 Corinthians 15:45

6) I think the people from which the gospel is hidden refers to Soil #1 of Matthew 13, people who have harden their hearts by the practice of sin such that they can no longer understand the gospel, But the rest of fallen mankind can understand spiritual milk (1 Corinthians 3:1-3) because Paul as to "men of flesh."

But do not let my differing over nits detract from the obvious Calvinism is bogus.

 

It's a distinction without a difference.

 

This is actually a bad argument for Adam's spiritual death, long debunked. Adam did spiritually die, but bad arguments don't help the cause.

The Hebrew idiom dying you will die, does not mean immediately you will die, but rather certainly you will die. God was telling Adam that his death would become certain on the day he ate.

The same idiom is used in the Shimei King Solomon account. When Shamei crossed the bridge he was commanded not to, he also became marked for death, right at that moment, even though he didn't actually die until a later date.

 

The difference is, God's used the specific phrase in the day. It specifically means that Adam would be marked for death on the specific day he disobeyed God. This is why your view cannot be compatible with the Text. Your view is that Adam proved what he already was by failing to obey God. The Text, however, says Adam was marked for death on a specific day—the day he ate.

There's no way around this. For in the day you eat, dying you will die. God is specifically linking Adam's death to his disobedience.

If Adam's disobedience merely proved he was already dying, God would not have said what he said.

 

A common nomenclature error of old earthers. They conflate modern scientific terms with ancient terms translated into modern english.

I've heard some creationists say plants and insects are better understood as biological machines, rather than living beings. Makes sense, being they lack any type of soul.