A Complaint About A Lack of Logic

The passage is a "if" statement, or at least, a conditional one.

 

Yes, in the text of Scripture, but you have to be able to read with what A.W. Pink called 'spiritual eyes and to compare Scripture with Scripture.

That God knew that Adam would fall is a given. The question is whether God forced Him in some way, or enticed him into sin or whether, to reference the Anglican prayer book, he sinned 'by his own deliberate fault.'

'Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God;" for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death' (James 1:13-15).

‘Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die “’(Gen 2:15-17 ). The covenant (for such I deem it to be) comes in the form of a provision, a command and a warning, but a gracious promise is implied - eternal life; ‘if you don’t the forbidden fruit, you shall live.’ And since there was no death before Adam fell (Romans 5:12ff), the implied promise would not have appeared strange to Adam. He was put into the position of a tenant moving into a house. The landlord might tell him, “You can live here rent-free in return for doing the garden; you can eat all the stuff that grows in the garden, but the first time you touch the vintage claret in the cellar, you’re out!”

There is nothing there that requires us to believe that Adam's death was inevitable. As I say, he was already the possessor of eternal life. Either we have to believe that God is the author of evil and that he somehow made Adam sin, or we must accept that he fell by sharing the sinful desires of his wife and was the author of his own misfortune. Had he not eaten of the tree, he would have continued to live.

Also, as others have pointed out, there is a parallel passage in 1 Kings 2:36-37. 'Then the king sent and called for Shimei, and said to him, "Build yourself a house in Jerusalem and dwell there, and do not go out from there anywhere. For it shall be, on the day you go out and cross the Brook Kidron, know for certain you shall surely die; you blood shall be on your own head."'

Now Solomon was a cluey sort of chap. but I don't think he is ever described as a prophet. He may have suspected that Shimei wouldn't stay in Jerusalem all that long, but he didn't know that. As it happens, it took three years before Shimei absconded, and if he had let his slaves go instead of chasing after them, he would have lived many more years. Solomon's warning was just that - a warning. If you leave Jerusalem, you're going to die. Implication: if you don't leave, you won't die. As with Shimei, so with Adam.

Just a quick word on the phrase 'in the day that......' It is a Hebrew figure of speech and not to be taken strictly literally. Shimei's donkey was never going to get him to Gath and back in a single day, yet Shimei lived until he got home, and probably for a day or two afterwards.

 

Do you really think that Calvinists do not believe in the triple office (munus triplex -triple cure) of the Lord Jesus Christ?
Where do you think the term munus triplex comes from, or at least, who popularized the term?

"Therefore, in order that faith may find a firm basis for salvation in Christ, and thus rest in him, this principle must be laid down: the office enjoined upon Christ by the Father consists of three parts. For he was given to be prophet, king and priest." - Calvin: Institutes II. xv. 1

 

Luke 19:9-10. Your Dispensationalism is hindering your understanding, but whatever your beef with @Alan Gross, do not impute to Calvinists that which is entirely false.

 

There is no attempt to deal with my post, only a trotting out of your mantra.
In both cases death was only certain if certain events took place. I'm not sure why you're referencing 2 Kings 7, but obviously 1 Kings 2 deals only with physical death. Let's come to Genesis 2. Do you believe that Adam was spiritually alive (c.f. Romans 6:11) before the fall and remained so afterwards, or do you believe that he was spiritually dead (c.f. Ephesians 2:1) before the Fall and remained so afterwards? Or what do you believe?

 

@JD731,
Just in case you're still in doubt as to whether Reformed folk uphold the Three-fold Office of Christ, here's the Baptist Catechism (Keach's).

Q. 23. What offices doth Christ execute as our Redeemer?

A. Christ, as our Redeemer, executeth the offices of a prophet (Deut 18:18, Heb 1:1-2), of a priest (Heb 4:14-15, Heb 5:5-6),and of a king (Is 9:6-7, Lk 1:32-33, John 18:37, 1 Cor 15:25), both in his estate of humiliation and exaltation.

Q. 24. How doth Christ execute the office of a prophet?

A. Christ executeth the office of a prophet, in revealing to us, by his Word (Heb 2:3) and Spirit (1 Peter 1:11), the will of God for our salvation.

Q. 25. How doth Christ execute the office of a priest?

A. Christ executeth the office of a priest, in his once offering up of himself a sacrifice to satisfy divine justice (Hebrews 9:14, 28; Acts 8:32-35), and reconcile us to God (Col 1:21-22; Hebrews 2:17), and in making continual intercession for us (Heb 9:24).

Q. 26. How doth Christ execute the office of a king?

A. Christ executeth the office of a king, in subduing us to himself, in ruling (Isaiah 33:22) and defending us (Col 1:13), and in restraining and conquering all his and our enemies (Col 2:15).

The Westminster Shorter Catechism is identical.

 

So you believe that if Shimei had not crossed the Brook Kidron, Solomon would have had him killed anyway. And where exactly is that in the Bible?

So you believe that if Adam hadn't sinned, he would have died anyway. And where exactly is that in the Bible?

You mean apart from Irenaeus, Origen and Athanasius. And the Bible.
And while we're insulting each other, you have imbibed J.W. methods of denying the Scripture.

 

OK. So there are two alternatives. He goes and he dies; he doesn't go, and......... What?

Of course God speaks from a position of authority. But that does not stop Him giving conditional warnings. Loads of them in the Bible. Do you want me to list some of them for you?
Jeremiah 7:5ff comes to mind. 'If you thoroughly amend your ways and your doings, if you thoroughly execute judgements between a man and his neighbour, if you do not oppress the stranger and the fatherless...............then I will cause you to dwell in this place.......'

So what happens when they don't thoroughly amend their ways and so forth? Does God still cause them to dwell in that place? After all, He's not a God of "ifs."

 

I know

OF THE GRACE OF CHRIST IN HIS STATES OF HUMILIATION AND EXALTATION,
AND IN THE OFFICES EXERCISED BY HIM IN THEM.

Of the Incarnation of Christ †
Of Christ's State of Humiliation †
Of the Active Obedience of Christ †
Of the Passive Obedience of Christ †
Of the Burial of Christ † Of the Resurrection of Christ †
Of the Ascension of Christ †
Of the Session of Christ at the Right Hand of God †
Of the Prophetic Office of Christ †
Of the Priestly Office of Christ †
Of the Intercession of Christ †
Of Christ's Blessing his People as a Priest †
Of the Kingly Office of Christ †
Of the Spiritual Reign of Christ

 

Well, we are not making suppositions; we are reading the word of God. And we read that, 'Through one man sin entered the world and death through sin,' and that 'By the one man's offense death reigned through the one.....' So if Adam had not sinned / offended, death would not have come into the world. Just believe what God tells us.

Not a supposition, it's the word of God. The Bible is all one book, and when you pick one extract, interpret it wrongly, ignore all the explanatory texts and then bounce up and down on it like a trampoline, it's no wonder that you fall into error, and very serious error at that.

God has ordained all things that come to pass, but Adan sinned by his own fault and brought disaster on himself and all his progeny. If you find that paradoxical, it is because you are putting your own fallen human logic before the Bible and you need to read, slowly and prayerfully, Isaiah 55:8-9 and Romans 11:33-36.

I have known for a long time that I will not change your mind You are wedded to your human logic and only God can bring you to your senses. I have said before that I take issue with you only in the fear that new Christians may be led astray by you. Of course God is sovereign over events, but He is not the author of evil.

Reference God not being the God of "ifs," read the following texts which were all given at pivotal moments in Israel's history. Exodus 19:5; 1 Samuel 12:14-15 and 2 Chronicles 7:14, 17-22; Isaiah 1:18-20.