Featured No Plans

No Plans



Powerpoint:

https://archive.org/download/no-plans/No Plans.pptx

(Apologies for some audio/visual errors)

 

Any feedback would be appreciated, thank you.

Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuJIK1Lhu7BgyCuOVjRHg8A

Much more Can be found here - User Account

And Especially here - http://supernaturalresources.epizy.com

Or here - Matthew_ten_Verseight

Or here - https://www.dailymotion.com/library/playlist/x6qij7

Or here - $1's Page!

Or here - https://d.tube/c/supernaturalresources444

Or here - Character Building

Or here - awhn

 

So which plan are you on?

 

Would you watch it entirely, if I were to watch one you chose for me? An exchange?

 

Apples to Oranges fallacy. What is in the video isn't a "mass", which has nothing to do with scripture. It is preaching from the Bible, with one quotation from Desire of Ages which follows the Biblical text.

Have you ever seen a baptist debate another that is not a baptist?

 

How about just reading the powepoint provided?

 

How do you know it is heresy if you refuse to both watch and read? You sound like these:

Mat_13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

 

So, the Father (Ancient of Days) is God (Deity), Uncreated and Eternal, I AM, JEHOVAH (That's what a Seventh-day Adventist believes). That's heresy?

 

That would deny the doctrine and purpose of the resurrection and second advent, and therefore, No, not all "Baptist" believe as you (individually) do, as I have shown on numerous occasions. Therefore you do not have an issue with me, or Seventh-day Adventist doctrine, but with the Bible and with other Baptist before you.

Historically:

Like Luther who believed the person sleeps in death until their resurrection at the return of Jesus:

Others included Camillo Renato (1540)[109] Mátyás Dévai Bíró (1500–1545)[110] Michael Servetus (1511–1553)[111] Laelio Sozzini (1562)[112] Fausto Sozzini (1563)[113] the Polish Brethren (1565 onwards)[114] Dirk Philips (1504–1568)[115] Gregory Paul of Brzezin (1568)[116] the Socinians (1570–1800)[117] John Frith (1573)[118] George Schomann (1574)[119] Simon Budny (1576)[113]​

Like Milton:

Those holding this view include: 1600s: Sussex Baptists[126] d. 1612: Edward Wightman[127] 1627: Samuel Gardner[128] 1628: Samuel Przypkowski[129] 1636: George Wither[130] 1637: Joachim Stegmann[131] 1624: Richard Overton[90] 1654: John Biddle (Unitarian)[132] 1655: Matthew Caffyn[133] 1658: Samuel Richardson[134] 1608–1674: John Milton[135][136] 1588–1670: Thomas Hobbes[117] 1605–1682: Thomas Browne[137] 1622–1705: Henry Layton[138] 1702: William Coward[138] 1632–1704: John Locke[139] 1643–1727: Isaac Newton[140] 1676–1748: Pietro Giannone[141] 1751: William Kenrick[142] 1755: Edmund Law[143] 1759: Samuel Bourn[144] 1723–1791: Richard Price[145] 1718–1797: Peter Peckard[146] 1733–1804: Joseph Priestley[147] Francis Blackburne (1765)[148] (1765).​

19th-20th century:

Others include: Millerites (from 1833),[154] Edward White (1846),[155] Christadelphians (from 1848),[156] Thomas Thayer (1855),[157] François Gaussen (d.1863),[158] Henry Constable (1873),[159] Louis Burnier (Waldensian, d.1878),[160] the Baptist Conditionalist Association (1878),[161] Cameron Mann (1888),[162] Emmanuel Pétavel-Olliff (1891), Miles Grant (1895)[163] George Gabriel Stokes (1897),[155]

The Blackwell Encyclopedia of Modern Christian Thought (1995), says "There is no concept of an immortal soul in the Old Testament, nor does the New Testament ever call the human soul immortal.",[190] Harper's Bible Dictionary (1st ed. 1985), says that 'For a Hebrew, ‘soul’ indicated the unity of a human person; Hebrews were living bodies, they did not have bodies",[191] the New Bible Dictionary’ (3rd. ed. 1996), says "But to the Bible man is not a soul in a body but a body/soul unity",[192] the Encyclopedia of Judaism’ (2000), says "Scripture does not present even a rudimentarily developed theology of the soul",[193] the New Dictionary of Theology’ (2000), and "The notion of the soul as an independent force that animates human life but that can exist apart from the human body—either prior to conception and birth or subsequent to life and death—is the product only of later Judaism",[188] Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible (2000), says "Far from referring simply to one aspect of a person, “soul” refers to the whole person",[194] the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia says "Possibly Jn. 6:33 also includes an allusion to the general life-giving function. This teaching rules out all ideas of an emanation of the soul.",[195] and "The soul and the body belong together, so that without either the one or the other there is no true man",[196] Eerdmans Bible Dictionary (1987), says "Indeed, the salvation of the “immortal soul” has sometimes been a commonplace in preaching, but it is fundamentally unbiblical.",[197] the Encyclopedia of Christianity (2003), says "The Hebrew Bible does not present the human soul (nepeš) or spirit (rûah) as an immortal substance, and for the most part it envisions the dead as ghosts in Sheol, the dark, sleepy underworld",[198] The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church (2005), says "there is practically no specific teaching on the subject in the Bible beyond an underlying assumption of some form of afterlife (see immortality)",[199] and the Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible (rev. ed. 2009), says "It is this essential soul-body oneness that provides the uniqueness of the biblical concept of the resurrection of the body as distinguished from the Greek idea of the immortality of the soul".[200][201]

The mortalist disbelief in the existence of a naturally immortal soul,[1][5] is also affirmed as biblical teaching by various modern theologians,[202][203][204][205][206][207][208][209][210]- Christian mortalism​

 

So, why do you disagree with these, are they all Heretics?

Anabaptist (generally and anciently) and later Mennonite (some):

Paulsen, for instance, says,

"The imagery of the soul's sleep expresses the nature of the interim state of the soul; the idea that the soul sleeps is substantiated by those who have been roused from the dead, inasmuch as the awakened ones can give no information about death, as would be the case if they had remained fully conscious." - The Mennonite Encyclopedia: A Comprehensive Reference Work on the Anabaptist-Mennonite Movement, Volume 4 - Link​

"... [Anabaptists] taught the sleep of the soul in death and eternal life only in Christ received at the resurrection. This inevitably developed into tension with the established churches, which in turn resulted in prohibition of the Anabaptist assemblies." - Martin Luther's Views on Conditionalism and Soul Sleep​

Seventh-day Anabaptists:

"[Doctrine held generally] Soul Sleep (conditional immortality of the soul)." - Seventh Day Anabaptists: Doctrines of the Anabaptists influence continue in the heart of bible believing Christians

"Nearly all of them [Anabaptists] taught both soul-sleep and the final annihilation of the wicked" - The Anabaptists and their Stepchildren - F.N. Lee | Reformed Theology at Semper Reformanda​

General Baptists

In his "Institutes of Ecclesiastical History" chancellor of the University of Gottingen, Johann L. von Mosheim records that the "General Baptists" where spread in large numbers over many of the provinces of England As one article of faith they held "that the soul, between death and the resurrection at the last day, has neither pleasure nor pain, but is in a state of insensibility." - [see Page 697] http://books.google.com/books?id=EIEPAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false​

John Calvin (who wrote against in his Psychopannychia (1534), which is where most Calvinist Baptist get the idea of immediate hell/heaven reward), Friedrich Spanheim & Karl Muller wrote about the Anabaptists, and documented their beliefs:

"Calvin, in his Psychopannychia (1544), counts the Anabaptists as one of the groups believing in the sleep of the soul ... Also Friedrich Spannheim asserts that the Mennonites held the belief in the sleep of the soul ... Karl Müller, the church historian of Tübingen, thought the doctrine was definitely held by the Anabaptists in the Romance countries"​

Samuel Richardson (1633-1658)

Pastor, First Particular Baptist Church, of London wrote a discourse entitled :
"A Discourse on the Torments of Hell : The Foundations and Pillars therof discover'd, serch'd, shaken, and remov'd. With Infallible Proofs that there is not to be a punishment after this Life, for any to endure that shall never end" 1658 [see also Page 70 herem right hand top Column] - http://books.google.com/books?id=W2NlnJippEkC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false​

Modern era:

Warren Prestidge (M.A., B.D. Hons) is a Baptist pastor. His first degree was in English and he has taught at Auckland University and at secondary school. Since 1981, he has pastored churches in Auckland and also lectured for the Bible College of New Zealand and Tyndale College. For two years he directed a Bible College in the Philippines. He authored Life, Death and Destiny. -

"According to the Bible, the dead, whether Christian or non-Christian, good or evil, saved or lost, are neither suffering in “hell”, nor labouring in “purgatory”, nor rejoicing in “heaven”. Rather, they have entirely ceased to function. Without consciousness, they await the resurrection of the dead at the return of the Christ, that is, Jesus, in the glory of God. To use a common biblical metaphor, they “sleep the sleep of death” (Ps. 13:3)." - Sleep of death | Soul Sleep - Afterlife | Conditional Immortality​

Modern Others:

"... annihilationists come from and are part of any number of different denominations. ...

... E. Earle Ellis was a professor of theology at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary (Southern Baptist Convention) until he fell asleep. Similarly, Dale Moody taught at Southern Baptist Seminary (also SBC). I bet you never thought conservative Southern Baptists would hold this view! Claude Mariottini, Old Testament professor at Northern Baptist Seminary (American Baptist Convention), is also an annihilationist, 7 ..." - Don’t Be Afraid to Rethink Hell: Why Other Beliefs Needn’t Get In Your Way

"... I was a few weeks into the research when I read an article by a renown Southern Baptist New Testament scholar named E. Earle Ellis titled “The New Testament Teaching on Hell.” In it, he argued fairly and thoroughly that the New Testament advocates for an annihilation view of hell. This caught me off guard; I didn’t know he was going to argue for this. I read the article very casually, thinking it was going to be yet another defense of the traditional view. After all, Ellis is Southern Baptist. He’s evangelical. And he didn’t front his view at the beginning. He simply looked at all the relevant passages, exegeted them (with the exegetical methods I was taught in seminary), and then concluded that hell would not last forever; that is, its inhabitants would not experience everlasting conscious torment. And Ellis argued this from the text. ..." - Is Annihilation an Evangelical Option?

E. Earle Ellis ; New Testament Teaching on Hell - Rethinking Hell

Edward Fudge: Hell & Mr. Fudge - https://edwardfudge.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/excerptTFTC3.pdf

Re-enactment (Film), Hell & Mr. Fudge - Hell & Mr Fudge - Edward Fudge : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive or here - Matthew_ten_Verseight

Lecture - Edward Fudge - The Fire That Consumes: A Biblical and Historical Study of Hell
​

 

Please do not get the idea that, as a Seventh-day Adventist, I deny the Biblical (KJB) doctrine of "hell" and "hellfire", "torment" or even later "Lake of fire". I most certainly do not deny such doctrine, and teach it, in the context of God is Love. It will be a mercy to the finally impenitent and a final judgment. What I deny is eternal torment. I am praying for those who call me what they do, in all sincerity and truth. If we cannot have a conversation about what the Bible says, as Christians, then when can conversation ever take place? If anything I present, is to be summarily dismissed, without even so much as consideration in full, then what is the purpose of this section of the forums? I consider what you say, and present in full. I respond in kind. I provide documentation, facts, evidence - truth. I am not presenting what an individual man thinks, but what God says, and as others themselves have so read and understood as the Bible defines itself.

 

Did you have another doctrine in mind that you think is heresy that we teach?

 

If that really is current Baptist theology, and Baptists think that what was just given makes sense, is logical, orderly and with wisdom from God, I would like to say I am glad I am not Baptist and instead believe the 'heresy' I do.