Featured Were non-Calvinists predestinated to be non-Calvinists?

I agree that it is amazing God's grace and mercy. I deserve hell, so do you and all sinners. It isn't until you realize you are a sinner deserving hell saved by God's grace do you understand the Gospel fully. I have deep respect of that truth taken to heart among Calvinists. Even though I disagree with you all on how to interpret scripture.

 

Because they are evil. What do they do when the light is shown on them any way

Jn 8:12 is an offer and invitation.
MB

 

That is the fundamenal issue. We have the cpmmon ground of the New Testament. And presumably we each know God through Christ and believe the same essentials.

 

So can God ... that’s what Hell is for.

 

False accusation? I have not worked for my Salvation. The saved do not go to hell because they've been forgiven. IOW'S they no longer deserve it the slate has been wiped clean. There is a huge difference between deserving and being forgiven. We will never see hell after being forgiven. The Lord has paid our penalty.
MB

 

I get what you are saying, it was a little hard to understand. I agree.

 

Well I agree. As I think Dave G said, it is not as though we think we have an unbiblical doctrine that we are promoting on purpose.

Whichever of the two sides winds up wrong, they did so out of ignorance. If we altered the Gospel, as given a few times explicitly in scripture, or taught falsely on purpose, then we are truly false teachers. As it is we are potentially blinded by deception, a terrible thing worthy of our efforts to understand the scriptures and seek to expound on what we believe scripture teaches.

 

Which is what all of us are ( Ecclesiastes 7:20, Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18, Romans 3:23 ).

The only thing that makes us good or righteous in God's eyes,
is Him cleansing us from our sins ( Romans 8:33, 1 Corinthians 6:11, 1 John 1:7 ) by the blood of His Son.

We reject it, and Him, just as Romans 3:10-18 and John 3:19-20 clearly state.

The Lord Jesus told the Pharises why they would not come to Him:

" Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that [cometh] from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is [one] that accuseth you, [even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?" ( John 5:39-47 ).

Look at it carefully, MB...
There's a reason why people come to Him and why they do not.

It's a heart issue, and one only God can change.
This is dealt with in John 6 and many other places.

 

To me, John 8:12 is not an offer...
It is a declaration of who has the light of life and who does not:

" Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." ( John 8:12 ).

It states, in no uncertain terms, that whoever follows Christ shall not walk in darkness, but shall have ( present tense ) the light of life.

Where do you see an offer anywhere in that, MB?
Does your mind see the declaration that whoever follows Him shall have the light of life, and by implication come to the conclusion that if you agree to follow Him, you shall have the light of life?

For some reason I don't see this when I read it, MB.
I see a plainly stated and worded declaration, not an offer of "come to me and I will give you the light of life".

Again, may He bless you greatly in your studies, sir.

 

I'll answer it, George.

Answered in post # 2.

But if you want a more straight-forward answer, I'll say,
"Yes", and I'll qualify it this way:

As I see it, all of God's children ( that He loved from the foundation of the world ) were predestinated conformed to the image of His Son, predestinated to their adoption as the sons of God, and they both hear ( John 8:43-47 ) or willingly receive God's words and eventually come to a fuller understanding of them by the Holy Spirit that indwells them ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-16, 1 John 2:20-27 ) over the course of their studies.

Therefore,
My best advice to anyone who has truly believed on Christ for the forgiveness of their sins, is to study to show themselves approved unto God, so that they will someday rightly divide the word of truth ( 2 Timothy 2:15 ).

George,
As I see it, you're asking this question to trap people and have them admit to whether or not what you call "Calvinism" is the true doctrine of God's people...
That their salvation rests in God and His work alone,
and that anyone outside of eventually coming to see this is not saved.

Since you've put me in a spot that my best endeavors will not allow me to answer without causing offense,
Then in my honesty and integrity I will offer up my best answer and let those chips fall where they may as well.
I also tell you this knowing full well that I've allowed you to back me into that corner from which I cannot answer it without causing offense,
and knowing this, I also confess that I have nothing to lose by telling you what I believe to be the truth, except my esteem among men.


Here is my answer for anyone who is in doubt:

I believe that what is commonly called "Calvinism" is not only the truth,
but that those who never come to see what the Scriptures teach about their salvation being totally and completely of God ( and angrily resist it until the day they die ), are probably not saved.



You may now report my post and request that I be banned from this board if that's what the moderators and admins wish to do to me.


As always,
I wish you and yours well and God's blessing upon you,
Both in your daily life and in your eternal one;
and may He grant you the privilege to see what I have seen...



His amazing mercy and electing grace through His Son and His taking out of the nations a people for His namesake.

 

Predestination is for the conforming of man to the likeness of Christ. It is not for Salvation or election.
MB

 

You were clearly answered. You simply despise the answers you have received. Either respond to the answers that were given or keep speaking falsely. Your choice.

 

An Arminian can’t say anything but Yes.

A Calvinist shouldn’t say anything but No.

Here’s why:
An Arminian believes he is correct in assuming that God predestines based on knowledge of the future actions of men, and therefore God merely does what fate (a settled future that He is mostly merely a spectator of) makes Him do.

A Calvinist believes he is correct in assuming God predestines all things from the beginning (or earlier), leading to a settled future, based on His own plans, but that means God’s plans include making some of His believers to believe a lie, which He would never do to His children.

If neither are correct, then there must be a third option, which does not require a settled future, except for the things God wants to accomplish, leaving man to decide whether to believe in Him, based on the evidences He has graciously provided.

The rewards of that belief are the accomplishment of the predestined characteristics He wants all believers to have and to grow in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Seems like you've been under the tutelage of Greg Boyd and other open theists...

 

LOL, God in the position of Satan...

You lift Satan to a position he has not and never will attain.

Moreso, you make yourself the judge of God.

Thus, you struggle to accept/believe that God ordains the affairs of men.

Daniel 4:34-35 At the end of the days I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted my eyes to heaven, and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High, and praised and honored him who lives forever, for his dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom endures from generation to generation; all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?”

Isaiah 14:24,26-27 The Lord of hosts has sworn: “As I have planned, so shall it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand, This is the purpose that is purposed concerning the whole earth, and this is the hand that is stretched out over all the nations. For the Lord of hosts has purposed, and who will annul it? His hand is stretched out, and who will turn it back?

Ephesians 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.

Your question is answered, George. I'm sure you won't like it, but your question is answered.

 

Many have answered. Few have been chosen...