"Maybe its real ,and I'm not Chosen "

[Barry Johnson]

….some of you people got real deep problems, how do you sleep at night? Calvinist at your back door? Watching your house? Under your bed? Hiding in your closet? Definitely on your brain.

Lamenting our sinfulness in the same vein as Paul in Romans 7 has zilch to do with Calvinism or LS. It comes natural from the quickened hearts of His children.

Have you watched the clip ?

 

[AustinC]

So your accusing Jesus of teaching Universalism? Or does Draw mean attract?

Nope, I am openly saying that you teach universalism when you capitalize the word "all" as you quote the verse.
I am saying that you ignore context when you quote verses so that you can create a false theology.
I am openly saying your theology is wrong.

 

[37818]

The Holy Spirit is not said to be drawing anyone .

Ok. That being true. Would you or would you not agree that without the in sacntification of the Spirit no one comes to Christ? That (1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14), without which (in sanctification of the Spirit) no one is drawn by God (John 6:44-45)? Just to clarify this.

 

[37818]

BTW, I have watched the whole clip. And have on order R. C. Sproul's book "What is Reformed Theology?"

 

[Barry Johnson]

Nope, I am openly saying that you teach universalism when you capitalize the word "all" as you quote the verse.
I am saying that you ignore context when you quote verses so that you can create a false theology.
I am openly saying your theology is wrong.

Universalism teaches everyone ultimately winds up saved . I reject the idea completely. But Jesus did die for every one sins ,head for head ,soul for soul . And Just because people are drawn to Jesus not everyone is ' irresistibly ' awaken by hindu enlightenment believes .

 

[Barry Johnson]

Ok. That being true. Would you or would you not agree that without the in sacntification of the Spirit no one comes to Christ? That (1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14), without which (in sanctification of the Spirit) no one is drawn by God (John 6:44-45)? Just to clarify this.

How are you understanding ' sanctification ' ?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Ok. That being true. Would you or would you not agree that without the in sacntification of the Spirit no one comes to Christ? That (1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14), without which (in sanctification of the Spirit) no one is drawn by God (John 6:44-45)? Just to clarify this.

Would you say that's the Father drawing in John .6.44 ect ? I don't ever see the Holy Spirit 'drawing ' .

 

[Barry Johnson]

Ok. That being true. Would you or would you not agree that without the in sacntification of the Spirit no one comes to Christ? That (1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14), without which (in sanctification of the Spirit) no one is drawn by God (John 6:44-45)? Just to clarify this.

Are you seeing the sanctification before or after conversion?.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Nope, I am openly saying that you teach universalism when you capitalize the word "all" as you quote the verse.
I am saying that you ignore context when you quote verses so that you can create a false theology.
I am openly saying your theology is wrong.

By highlighting ALL in that verse shows that ' drawing ' has nothing to do with irresistible Grace ( which is a false doctrine) because even if drawn not all believe .

 

[canadyjd]

By highlighting ALL in that verse shows that ' drawing ' has nothing to do with irresistible Grace ( which is a false doctrine) because even if drawn not all believe .

So God is “all knowing“ and “all powerful”? Right?

God knows exactly how much “drawing” is necessary to bring someone to salvation, right? Of curse He does. And God, being all powerful, is capable, if He choses, to use whatever “drawing” is necessary to bring someone to salvation. Right?

So, just for discussion, let’s say “drawing” can be measured from level 1 to level 10, depending how much power/influence God uses in a persons life. Level 1 being a slight nudge. Level 10 being irresistible.

Wouldn’t it be cruel of God to only use a level 5 “drawing” on a person knowing that person needs level 6 or higher?

If you say God uses the same amount of “drawing” on everyone, say a level 5, then you are acknowledging God has made salvation only available to some people.

peace to you

 

[Barry Johnson]

So God is “all knowing“ and “all powerful”? Right?

God knows exactly how much “drawing” is necessary to bring someone to salvation, right? Of curse He does. And God, being all powerful, is capable, if He choses, to use whatever “drawing” is necessary to bring someone to salvation. Right?

So, just for discussion, let’s say “drawing” can be measured from level 1 to level 10, depending how much power/influence God uses in a persons life. Level 1 being a slight nudge. Level 10 being irresistible.

Wouldn’t it be cruel of God to only use a level 5 “drawing” on a person knowing that person needs level 6 or higher?

If you say God uses the same amount of “drawing” on everyone, say a level 5, then you are acknowledging God has made salvation only available to some people.

peace to you

I don't usually like dealing with philosophy when it comes to the bible. I believe that in the sense of Calvinism / Arminism . irresistible or previenient it is false .
Grace is just fine on it’s own as it’s found in scripture. Any modifier other than “free,” such as “sovereign,” “irresistible,” or “prevenient” indicate someone is either confused or attempting to confuse. (Rom. 3:24; 5:15; Jn. 1:16; Tit. 2:11-13)
I believe Conviction of the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation, but occurs to sinners alike, regardless of consequent faith or unbelief. It is not irresistible or unconditionally selective. (Jn. 16:7-11)

 

[AustinC]

Universalism teaches everyone ultimately winds up saved . I reject the idea completely. But Jesus did die for every one sins ,head for head ,soul for soul . And Just because people are drawn to Jesus not everyone is ' irresistibly ' awaken by hindu enlightenment believes .

Then the "all" you emphasized is not universal. Thus, your contention must be false.

If Jesus paid and atoned for everyone's sins, then everyone's sins are paid for. By your contention, Jesus has failed to awaken all that he died for. In any scenario you have created, you blame Jesus for human's not being saved, since according to you, all sins are paid for.

 

[AustinC]

By highlighting ALL in that verse shows that ' drawing ' has nothing to do with irresistible Grace ( which is a false doctrine) because even if drawn not all believe .

You are saying that Jesus fails to save all for whom he died.

 

[Alan Gross]

An example of what your d onoing is :
A 8 year old boy is seen doing 50 back flips in a row

And yet only a certain group believes this . Shouldn't that be a red flag ?

A lost soul must be CONVICTED of being lost, without strength, before they can be Saved.

That is why unsaved lost souls who have not been Convicted of their INABILITY will say, "sure, I had the ability to believe the Gospel, on my own".

That is simply an Armenian, and by all definitions, NOT a testimony of Salvation.

The Armenian testimony has no element or extent of sin that requires God.

Clueing 'God in' on their Manificence and Dominant Athleticism to Hurdle and outsmart other dummies, in order to not go to Hell, is their calling card, for 'salvation'(?), along with denying it is like that and charging others with saying, 'all Armenians are lost'.

IF they, who say they are 'Armenian' actually believe Armenian herecy, and sincerely have never been lost IN THEIRS SIN and have not been Served Notice by God to them of their soul being Condemned, Damned, and under His Wrath, then what else are they?

Hoping for the best?

With no testimony of being wretchedly lost, as a worm, and no Salvation experience, or Assurance?

Just 'religious'?

Not all people know How God Says He Saves souls, but, they can be, or/and have been, TAUGHT exactly what God Says, IF they have been Given Ears to HEAR.

"there is none"

'Belief' in history, or a man existed that died on a cross, is not "Believing Faith".

Repeating a 'prayer' is not Saving Faith.

Selling flowers or counting beads is not Saving Faith.

You don't know How Many or WHO believes in Jesus, as their Savior, from the Position of Trusting HIM to Safeguard their soul, because they KNOW they are guilty of and capible only of carnal, fleshly, sin against God.

But, it is the ones who believe and have been Granted to ability to agree with and understand The Bible.

Every verse.

Why do some people not grasp God's Word, or Who He Says He is, and what He Does, and why don't they Worship THAT God?

They don't know Him.

They don't have a testimony of having been Shown that they are dead in trespasses and sins and that it TOOK GOD to Bring them from Darkness to Light.

Why not?

Why don't we see them say, "maybe it's real and I'm not chosen"?

We don't even see them seek.

They already know it all, whether that means twisting and disbelieving everything God Says to babes and announce to the World that they are wise and prudent.

never lost = never saved.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Then the "all" you emphasized is not universal. Thus, your contention must be false.

If Jesus paid and atoned for everyone's sins, then everyone's sins are paid for. By your contention, Jesus has failed to awaken all that he died for. In any scenario you have created, you blame Jesus for human's not being saved, since according to you, all sins are paid for.

No because that's not biblical soteriology. What you believe is a system that is imposed onto the bible .
Notice Romans 5.11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now recieved the atonement.
So Jesus dies for everyone's sins but look at what has to happen ? they have to recieve it .

 

[Barry Johnson]

You are saying that Jesus fails to save all for whom he died.

No people fail to recieve the one who died for all .
Belief that salvation for anyone was secured on the cross constitutes a denial of the necessity of the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:17)

”Die(d) to save” is not a Bible phrase or concept. It is therefore senseless to pit it against “died to make men savable” since the premise is false to start with. This false dichotomy indicates confusion about what saves.

God is pleased to save those that believe, not cause belief in those he saves. (1 Cor. 1:21; Rom. 10:9-10)

God’s sovereignty in salvation means that he executes it in accordance with Scripture and not in accordance with Hindu Fatalism.

 

[Alan Gross]

You are saying that Jesus fails to save all for whom he died.

All who He Draws Comes to Him, He Keeps them Sealed with the Ernest of their Inheritance, they are never cast out, nothing can separate them from His Eternal Love, wherewith He Loved them with an Everlasting Love, and All that The Father Gave the Son, He Saved, Kept, and lost none.

The Eternal Covenant of Grace has been Accomplished Perfectly, in the Salvation of God's Elect, Chosen from Eternity Past and Agreed to be Saved in this Plan by God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

The Eternal Godhead has had Everlasting, Perfect Delight, Complacency, and Joy within an among their Persons within
The Divine Essence of God, in Their View of this Absolutely Successful Accomplishment, of Saving them that are His to the uttermost, ALWAYS and FOREVER.

 

[Barry Johnson]

A lost soul must be CONVICTED of being lost, without strength, before they can be Saved.

That is why unsaved lost souls who have not been Convicted of their INABILITY will say, "sure, I had the ability to believe the Gospel, on my own".

That is simply an Armenian, and by all definitions, NOT a testimony of Salvation.

The Armenian testimony has no element or extent of sin that requires God.

Clueing 'God in' on their Manificence and Dominant Athleticism to Hurdle and outsmart other dummies, in order to not go to Hell, is their calling card, for 'salvation'(?), along with denying it is like that and charging others with saying, 'all Armenians are lost'.

IF they, who say they are 'Armenian' actually believe Armenian herecy, and sincerely have never been lost IN THEIRS SIN and have not been Served Notice by God to them of their soul being Condemned, Damned, and under His Wrath, then what else are they?

Hoping for the best?

With no testimony of being wretchedly lost, as a worm, and no Salvation experience, or Assurance?

Just 'religious'?

Not all people know How God Says He Saves souls, but, they can be, or/and have been, TAUGHT exactly what God Says, IF they have been Given Ears to HEAR.

"there is none"

'Belief' in history, or a man existed that died on a cross, is not "Believing Faith".

Repeating a 'prayer' is not Saving Faith.

Selling flowers or counting beads is not Saving Faith.

You don't know How Many or WHO believes in Jesus, as their Savior, from the Position of Trusting HIM to Safeguard their soul, because they KNOW they are guilty of and capible only of carnal, fleshly, sin against God.

But, it is the ones who believe and have been Granted to ability to agree with and understand The Bible.

Every verse.

Why do some people not grasp God's Word, or Who He Says He is, and what He Does, and why don't they Worship THAT God?

They don't know Him.

They don't have a testimony of having been Shown that they are dead in trespasses and sins and that it TOOK GOD to Bring them from Darkness to Light.

Why not?

Every one who receives Jesus is saved . That

A lost soul must be CONVICTED of being lost, without strength, before they can be Saved.

That is why unsaved lost souls who have not been Convicted of their INABILITY will say, "sure, I had the ability to believe the Gospel, on my own".

That is simply an Armenian, and by all definitions, NOT a testimony of Salvation.

The Armenian testimony has no element or extent of sin that requires God.

Clueing 'God in' on their Manificence and Dominant Athleticism to Hurdle and outsmart other dummies, in order to not go to Hell, is their calling card, for 'salvation'(?), along with denying it is like that and charging others with saying, 'all Armenians are lost'.

IF they, who say they are 'Armenian' actually believe Armenian herecy, and sincerely have never been lost IN THEIRS SIN and have not been Served Notice by God to them of their soul being Condemned, Damned, and under His Wrath, then what else are they?

Hoping for the best?

With no testimony of being wretchedly lost, as a worm, and no Salvation experience, or Assurance?

Just 'religious'?

Not all people know How God Says He Saves souls, but, they can be, or/and have been, TAUGHT exactly what God Says, IF they have been Given Ears to HEAR.

"there is none"

'Belief' in history, or a man existed that died on a cross, is not "Believing Faith".

Repeating a 'prayer' is not Saving Faith.

Selling flowers or counting beads is not Saving Faith.

You don't know How Many or WHO believes in Jesus, as their Savior, from the Position of Trusting HIM to Safeguard their soul, because they KNOW they are guilty of and capible only of carnal, fleshly, sin against God.

But, it is the ones who believe and have been Granted to ability to agree with and understand The Bible.

Every verse.

Why do some people not grasp God's Word, or Who He Says He is, and what He Does, and why don't they Worship THAT God?

They don't know Him.

They don't have a testimony of having been Shown that they are dead in trespasses and sins and that it TOOK GOD to Bring them from Darkness to Light.

Why not?

Why don't we see them say, "maybe it's real and I'm not chosen"?

We don't even see them seek.

They already know it all, whether that means twisting and disbelieving everything God Says to babes and announce to the World that they are wise and prudent.

never lost = never saved.

Conviction of the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation, but occurs to sinners alike, regardless of consequent faith or unbelief. It is not irresistible or unconditionally selective. (Jn. 16:7-11)

 

[Barry Johnson]

A lost soul must be CONVICTED of being lost, without strength, before they can be Saved.

That is why unsaved lost souls who have not been Convicted of their INABILITY will say, "sure, I had the ability to believe the Gospel, on my own".

That is simply an Armenian, and by all definitions, NOT a testimony of Salvation.

The Armenian testimony has no element or extent of sin that requires God.

Clueing 'God in' on their Manificence and Dominant Athleticism to Hurdle and outsmart other dummies, in order to not go to Hell, is their calling card, for 'salvation'(?), along with denying it is like that and charging others with saying, 'all Armenians are lost'.

IF they, who say they are 'Armenian' actually believe Armenian herecy, and sincerely have never been lost IN THEIRS SIN and have not been Served Notice by God to them of their soul being Condemned, Damned, and under His Wrath, then what else are they?

Hoping for the best?

With no testimony of being wretchedly lost, as a worm, and no Salvation experience, or Assurance?

Just 'religious'?

Not all people know How God Says He Saves souls, but, they can be, or/and have been, TAUGHT exactly what God Says, IF they have been Given Ears to HEAR.

"there is none"

'Belief' in history, or a man existed that died on a cross, is not "Believing Faith".

Repeating a 'prayer' is not Saving Faith.

Selling flowers or counting beads is not Saving Faith.

You don't know How Many or WHO believes in Jesus, as their Savior, from the Position of Trusting HIM to Safeguard their soul, because they KNOW they are guilty of and capible only of carnal, fleshly, sin against God.

But, it is the ones who believe and have been Granted to ability to agree with and understand The Bible.

Every verse.

Why do some people not grasp God's Word, or Who He Says He is, and what He Does, and why don't they Worship THAT God?

They don't know Him.

They don't have a testimony of having been Shown that they are dead in trespasses and sins and that it TOOK GOD to Bring them from Darkness to Light.

Why not?

Why don't we see them say, "maybe it's real and I'm not chosen"?

We don't even see them seek.

They already know it all, whether that means twisting and disbelieving everything God Says to babes and announce to the World that they are wise and prudent.

never lost = never saved.

Arminianism is a branch of Calvinistic thinking, and it is wrong for all the same reasons that Calvinism is wrong.

 

[Alan Gross]

There

Every one who receives Jesus is saved . That

Conviction of the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation, but occurs to sinners alike, regardless of consequent faith or unbelief. It is not irresistible or unconditionally selective. (Jn. 16:7-11)

There isn't a reference to anything regarding Salvation in those verses 7-11, or I might be able to show you.

The Holy Spirit Convicts all of sin and some Judge themselves to WILL that they not Come unto Jesus and are unworthy of Eternal Life.

General Conviction is not Wrought of God Drawing Toward Salvation.

Specifically, a lost soul is Sent a Preacher, who Preaches The Bible Message of sin and Condemnation.

Unless that happens, the lost soul can not be Given the Ears to Hear that Jesus Died for a Reason.

Their sin.

Yes, if Jesus did not Die for their sin, they may just believe that 'being a Christian looks nice" and think they have some claim to a Home in Heaven, by making a 'decision', or 'choosing', or 'believing their minister of darkness, but they are still lost.

And you don't even see them say, "Maybe it's real and I'm not chosen", TO EVER CONSIDER they are Eternally Fatally Deceived, unless Satan has a trick to use an alienated God-hater, for it.