Featured There is no strong case for a 7 year tribulation

It is funny you have two GOD kingdoms. There is no human antichrist. Satan only has a 3.5 year control of humanity unchecked.

 

you are not saying anything you are talking about.

 

for since through man is the death, also through man is a rising again of the dead, for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive, But each in his own rank:

When were they made alive by being raised from the dead?

 

The OT believers were made alive at the Cross. The moment a body dies, it is made alive in Christ, since the Cross. No one in Christ has been glorified, until the church is presented complete at the rapture. The rapture is placing those alive into a new body as if they had physically died. The rapture stops the process of the sinful nature flesh and blood. One in Christ alive changes from a corruptible body to an incorruptible body instantly. The old body is dead in the air, and changed.

The firstfruits along with Christ were the OT believers, at the Cross. Then those dead in Christ come with Him and those alive on earth are caught up all at the same meeting place. The whole church, both OT and NT are presented as one single body and presented to God in the temple of God.

It seems to me there is a meeting place between Paradise and earth. But then all are presented to God back into Paradise. God Himself will be in full view of all on earth as well. Those on earth must see what is taking place, and it is acknowledged that they are not part of this gathering and glorification going on above them. That is why they are claiming God is about to judge them in the opening of the 6th seal.

The Second Coming does not interrupt any process on earth. It happens when God says it is time to happen. It is the gathering of the church. Then the separation of the sheep and goats. Then last is the harvest of the wheat, while the tares are burned up. It is the same event with timed sets of judgments. They get progressively worse over time.

Satan's 3.5 years interrupts the Second Coming. The Second Coming does not disrupt the time of the Antichrist.

 

And I make known to you, brethren, the good news that I proclaimed to you, which also ye did receive, in which also ye have stood, through which also ye are being saved, in what words I proclaimed good news to you, if ye hold fast, except ye did believe in vain,

for I delivered to you first, what also I did receive, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Writings,

Did Jesus the Christ the Son of the living God actually, die. for our sins.

What was the exact moment that Christ, died, for our sins. Was this the same death spoken of here? and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.' Gen 2:17

As close as you think you can, exactly how long was Christ dead for our sins?

Expound upon, firstfruits, along with Christ.

 

@percho,
I am of the persuasion it was the death that was completed prior to John 19:28, ". . . Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, . . ." Isaiah 53:10, ". . . his soul an offering for sin, . . ."

 

What does that have to do with it being his blood that is an offering for sin.

From Isa 53:12 because he hath poured out his soul unto death - and with blood almost all things are purified according to the law, and apart from blood-shedding forgiveness doth not come. Heb 9:22 - for the soul of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the soul. Lev 17:11 Darby

At John 19:28 the soul of the flesh was still living for there was still something in the blood. Living enough to speak at least eleven more words.

 

Then Jesus cried again with a loud voice, and yielded up the ghost.
And behold, veil of the Temple was rent in twain, from the top to the bottom, and the earth did quake, and the stones were cloven.
And the graves did open themselves, and many bodies of the Saints, which slept, arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

After Yeshua had taken the wine, he said, “It is accomplished!” And, letting his head droop, he delivered up his spirit.

Ghost or Spirit went to God’s presence. The God body went to sheol and led captivity free. It was instantly because they came out of the graves immediately, before the human body was taking down and placed in a grave. What body was walking around talking to people? The one that had not yet ascended. What was presented to God when Jesus did ascend? The firstfruits resurrection at the cross when the OT believers came out of their graves. Those bodies would not march back down into sheol. All the OT believers and Lazarus would be presented as the firstfruit resurrection redeemed and allowed into Paradise. The thief went to Paradise that day. Moses, Enoch, Elijah, and the thief were never subjected to Satan nor sheol.

 

MMRRPP ! WRONG !

Daniel, Paul, & Revelation all indicate a human beast/antichrist.

As for the length of the great trib...

I believe the AC will reign for about 3.5 years & commit the "abomination of desolation", & the rapture will occur before the trib begins.And it'll be cut short before it can go for 3.5 years. Remember, Jesus said so in Matt. 24, lest all flesh(man & animal alike) perish.

 

Sproul and other partial preterists avoid the inevitable heresy of denying the future return of Christ.

Not even close. The sack of Jerusalem certainly cannot be considered greater than the Flood.

Matt. 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.​

The threshold of the Flood is too high for any event since to date. It must be future. (the sack of Jerusalem is absurd, in light of this verse)

 

Exactly. The kingdoms in the dream were well known and easy to identify. Suddenly, we get to this kingdom, and it's totally obscure. Anyone can see, this is not what the symbolism was pointing to.

 

Sounds like the objections we heard prior to Israel becoming a nation again.

 

Which are then explained to have real substance behind the symbol. Take for example, the 7 lamp stands and seven stars.

Rev. 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.​

The fact that a symbol is quantified is not proof it's not speaking of an actual quantity.

Jesus shows us at the beginning of the book, how to interpret it.

 

I agree with you, but some mysteries such as the 144,000 are uninterpreted and cause a lot of conjecture. Just saying.

 

Partial preterism is just-as-wrong. Jesus said He'd return immediately after the great trib ended. (Matt. 24) So, if the great trib has already occurred, then He is long-overdue !

 

I don't see what the mystery is all about. If it's not interpreted as a symbol, then take it as face value. John describes these men to a T.

 

The message was to seven actual church assemblies, but applicable to each of all actual Scripturally Organized churches of The Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus Tells His readers at the beginning of Revelation that it has, "been sent and signified", meaning symbolically.

The concept of figurative usage and language regarding The 1,000 years, or any other Prophetic Passage is determined by the context and not one number.

The WORST, MOST DEMON INSPIRED HERMENEUTIC, then, is to attempt to find WHAT GOD SAYS, by using a, "let's take the verse literally, unless we have to think it should be taken symbolicaly."

THAT is EVIL, Anri-Christ, and OPPOSITE of WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS.

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:" Revelation 1:1.

THAT ATTEMPT, of "let's take the verse literally, unless we have to think it should be taken symbolicaly" IS CARNAL & INCONSISTANT in attempted practice.

from:
9.0.18a:> NT: REVELATION 21:9; SATAN SOLD: “The Pre-Mil/ Rapture” Trap to The Candlestick’s Angles in Jesus’ Right Hand and SOME of HIS BRIDE BOUGHT IT.

The “Connotation” of a Reality, stated

IN FIGURATIVE LANGUAGE

is OFTEN MORE EXPRESSIVE of THE TRUTH

and FACTS of REALITY

than when a Fact is simply “Denoted”.

…

BOTH ARE LITERAL, LITERARY,
LITERATURE.
…

The confusion is created when,

“Literal” Interpretation

is CONFUSED with “LETTER-ISM”,

or a “Letter-for-Letter”,

PHOTOGRAPHIC,

Carbon Copy,
taken Only at “Face Value”.

…

The result of this

confusion created,

BY ASSUMING

“Literal” Interpretation

TO MEAN: “LETTER-ISM”,

is in an Inconsistent Hermeneutic.

…

For example, pressured by the obvious,

the falsely presumed to be:

prophetic “literalist”,

WHO IS ACTUALLY MISHANDLING

THE LITERATURE of THEIR NATIVE TONGUE,

BY INJECTING “LETTER-ISM”,

or a “Letter-for-Letter”,

PHOTOGRAPHIC,

Carbon Copy,
taken Only at “Face Value”,

AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR BASIC STRAIGHTFORWARD

READING the INTERPRETATION of LITERATURE,

will readily concede

that the sword coming from Christ’s mouth

is a symbol for the word of God (1:16);

or

that the Spirit symbolizes

the exalted Christ as a Lamb

with seven horns and seven eyes

in order to remind us that our Sacrifice for sin

is now the Omnipotent and Omniscient

High King and High Priest of Heaven (5:6).

…

When, however,

the PRESUMED “literalist” INJECTS “LETTER-ISM”

or a “Letter-for-Letter”,

PHOTOGRAPHIC,

Carbon Copy,
taken Only at “Face Value”,

INTO THEIR UNDERSTANDING of “READING”

and comes to the 144,000 of all the tribes

of the children of Israel (7:4);

or

to the two witnesses who prophesy

and (briefly) perish on the streets

of the Great City (11:8);

or

to Christ’s admonition to the saints

against taking the mark of the Beast (13:16-18);

or

to the gathering of the kings of the whole world

at the Mountain of Megiddo (16:14);

. . .

Then:

the PRESUMED “literalist”

that has INJECTED “LETTER-ISM”,

INTO THEIR UNDERSTANDING of “READING”,

suddenly abandons the symbolic hermeneutic,

AFTER THEY HAD

conceded, for example,

that the sword coming from Christ’s mouth

is a symbol for the word of God (1:16), etc., etc.

while using the symbolic hermeneutic,

THEY SWITCH OFF FROM

the symbolic hermeneutic

IN MID-STREAM

TO:

a Presumed “literal” hermeneutic ,

in which they have INJECTED “LETTER-ISM”,

or a “Letter-for-Letter”,

PHOTOGRAPHIC,

Carbon Copy,
taken Only at “Face Value”,

INTO THEIR UNDERSTANDING of “READING”,

and they look at “the 144,000 of all the tribes

of the children of Israel (7:4)” and say,

LET’S COUNT ‘EM”,

rather than maintaining

the symbolic hermeneutic,

at which time they may come to understand

that the 12 Apostles

represent The New Testament SAINTS

Faithful to God in Service and Worship

and

The 12 Tribes of Israel

represent The Old Testament SAINTS

Faithful to God in Service and Worship.

…

12 x 12 = 144.

…

Then,

MULTIPLY 144 TIMES

The Number for The COMPLETENESS

of ALMIGHTY GOD ( 10 )

in MAGNITUDE,

or “1,000”

or

144 X 1,000
&
we get: 144,000.
…

That’s what “we get”.

…

Do you get it ?

…

BY ENGAGING IN THIS PROCESS of

RANDOMLY SWITCHING OFF FROM

the symbolic hermeneutic

IN MID-STREAM

TO:

a Presumed “literal” hermeneutic ,

in which they have INJECTED “LETTER-ISM”,

INTO THEIR UNDERSTANDING of “READING”,

THE “LITERALIST / LETTER-ISM-ISTS”

or trying to forse a “Letter-for-Letter”,

PHOTOGRAPHIC,

Carbon Copy,
“Interpretation”,

taken at “Face Value” ONLY,

ARE

thereby abandoning:

a Consistent Method of Interpretation

for an Inconsistent Method of Interpretation.

…

More than once I have heard literalists

that has INJECTED “LETTER-ISM”,

INTO THEIR UNDERSTANDING of “READING”,

complain that a symbolic, typological hermeneutic

will leave the prophetic interpreter “at sea,”

bobbing up and down on the swells of mere subjectivity.

…

But perhaps it is really the literalist

that has INJECTED “LETTER-ISM”,

INTO THEIR UNDERSTANDING of “READING”,

who is “at sea”, or

bobbing back and forth at his own good pleasure,

RANDOMLY SWITCHING OFF FROM

the symbolic hermeneutic

IN MID-STREAM

TO:

a Presumed “literal” hermeneutic ,

in which they have INJECTED “LETTER-ISM”,

INTO THEIR UNDERSTANDING of “READING”,

WHICH IS, AT BEST, “HALTING”,
between two diametrically opposed approaches

to the interpretation of apocalyptic literature in general,

and

The Book of Revelation in particular.

 

Since there is nothing rational, related to the Bible, concerning calendar years of 7, or 3.5, or a period of clockwork alarm settings that are relevant to, "Where do we see a 7 year tribulation besides Daniel 9:27? No where. 3.5 years is mentioned 8 times.", in the OP, I am continuing with the prospect of Figurative Interpretation in Apocalyptic Genre ( and I made a new post on it).

You may have read each of these topics listed, in The Old Testament.

Each express 'a thousand', as 'magnitude', 'myryiad', etc.

Remeber, for the sake of honesty and investigation into, "What God would have us to UNDERSTAND", The Book of Revelation was NOT the first Book of The Bible that God Wrote and Revealed to Mankind.

Rebekah is Chosen

Genesis 24:…59 "So they sent their sister Rebekah on her way, along with her nurse and Abraham’s servant and his men.

60 And they blessed Rebekah and said to her, “Our sister, may you become the mother of thousands upon thousands. May your offspring possess the gates of their enemies.”

61 Then Rebekah and her servant girls got ready, mounted the camels, and followed the man."

...

The Ten Commandments

…5 "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on their children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,

6 "but showing loving devotion to a thousand generations of those who love Me and keep My commandments

.7 "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave anyone unpunished who takes His name in vain.…"

...

Moses Appoints Leaders

Deuteronomy "1:…10 The LORD your God has multiplied you, so that today you are as numerous as the stars in the sky.

11 "May the LORD, the God of your fathers, increase you a thousand times over and bless you as He has promised.

12 "But how can I bear your troubles, burdens, and disputes all by myself?…"

...

The Song of Moses

Deuteronomy "32:…29 If only they were wise, they would understand it; they would comprehend their fate.

30 "How could one man pursue a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up?

31 "For their rock is not like our Rock, even our enemies concede.…"

...

Moses Blesses the Twelve Tribes

Deuteronomy "33:1 And this is the blessing, wherewith Moses, the man of God, blessed the children of Israel before his death.

2 "And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; He shined forth from Mount Paran, and He came with ten thousands of saints. From His right hand went a fiery law for them."

...

God's Enemies Are Scattered

…Psalm 68:16 "Why do you gaze in envy, O mountains of many peaks? This is the mountain God chose for His dwelling, where the LORD will surely dwell forever.

17 "The chariots of God are tens of thousands— thousands of thousands are they; the Lord is in His sanctuary as He was at Sinai.

18 "You have ascended on high; You have led captives away. You have received gifts from men, even from the rebellious, that the LORD God may dwell there.…"

...

Daniel's Vision of the Ancient of Days

Daniel "7:9 As I continued to watch, thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days took His seat. His clothing was white as snow, and the hair of His head was like pure wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze.

10 "A river of fire was flowing, coming out from His presence. Thousands upon thousands attended Him, and myriads upon myriads stood before Him. The court was convened, and the books were opened.

11 "Then I kept watching because of the arrogant words the horn was speaking. As I continued to watch, the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire."

 

The rule says to take it literally if it makes sense literally. A 1000 years makes sense literally.