Featured 1st Corinthians 15 Universal atonement

LOL, no works here. God does it all.
However, you certainly have a subtle works-based theology that you teach. In fact, it's not very subtle. You could easily be a Roman Catholic if you received the sacraments.

 

I see scripture and what it says. When you say what I believe is nonsense, you are saying the Bible itself is nonsense. Barry, I and others have worked extremely hard to point you to scripture and you continually run away from it screaming "Calvinism" while you plug your ears to the scripture we share. You really have to look inward at your misunderstanding and stop using Calvin as your cop-out to avoid the Bible.

 

This is just false.
Where does the Bible say "to avoid hell, you must be glorified."? Hint: you cannot find it. You have created a list of works that must be accomplished to prove your merit.

 

Barry, I know what the Bible teaches and that God calls his children of the promise...elect.

 

You have created a merit-based salvation where glorification saves, not Jesus atoning sacrifice, shed for those God the Father gives him.

 

More than myself have pointed out your contradictions.

 

SavedByGrace,

[First John chapter 2 also tells about this, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world". "

"Also for the sins of the whole world. ]

You seem quite fond of posting greek words.
Which greek words are used in the last phrase; For the words used for.....THE SINS OF???

 

I understand the Scripture and have explained my understanding of Scripture. I have no problem doing that. You on the other hand cannot explain Scripture, which is why you avoid my questions.

When my questions challenge your 'limited atonement' you pull back in your shell and cry that I don't understand. I do understand that limited atonement is a lie. I have explained why it is a lie. And you have nothing to say other than I don't understand. Typical.

So, again, limited atonement negates federal headship, as I explained. So, who is the lucky person for whom Christ died? Must be you...right?

Why was Adam's sin universally given to his race? Why didn't God just distribute it to the non-elect?

Quantrill

 

To me, this is not about eternal life.
This is about temporal salvation and God granting favor based on how we as men treat Him in our daily lives.

Jonah was sent to Nineveh to preach God's wrath, and for the Ninevites to turn from their ways and avoid the city's destruction...
They did.

I see this being spoken to Israel, a nation that had agreed to follow the Law of Moses and to hearken to the commandments of God, and not all men.

The Lord Jesus is holding them responsible, as God holds all men responsible, to repent from our sins and to believe on His Son.
However, there's still the matter of the heart that needs to be addressed ( Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18, John 3:19-20. )
Unless a person is born again, they will not be willing to do what God requires.

Here I see much like the above...

A declaration to the Jews regarding eternal life.
Again, the Jews were responsible to repent and receive the words of God per their agreement under the Law of Moses...
Jesus is holding them responsible for that agreement, whether or not their hearts are "in it".

 

The Bible has nothing to do with Calvinism. The Bible is truth ,Calvinism is false doctrine.
MB

 

I have not presented any contradictions. You have done nothing but regurgitate your straw man arguments you use against those who are against Calvinism. You and others are just playing with a pinianta. Though I am not a 5 point Calvinist, I lean more to their doctrine than others. The parts I believe are the parts that Scripture supports. Limited atonement is not one of them.

Was Adam's sin universally given to his race? Why didn't God just distribute it to the non-elect? Limited sin would have been much easier to deal with then limited atonement.

I have shown that limited atonement negates federal headship. So, who is the lucky one whom Christ died for?

Quantrill

 

LOL! When men confess Jesus as Savior they are doing God's will and men have to confess and repent of there sins before they will be saved. God does not save men who do not believe. No where in scripture does it ever say man must be saved in order to believe. This is false doctrine.
MB

 

To me, that verse is clear evidence that a person's heart has been changed by the power of God...
They are exhibiting a repentant heart, instead of thinking that their works are what saves them or even completely ignoring the Lord in their actions.

That heart change is not something that we as men can bring about, but only the Lord, in His mercy, can.
Again, being born again is not by our will as men ( John 1:13, James 1:18 ).

Amen.
Repentance for the forgiveness of sins was indeed proclaimed in all the world, beginning at Jerusalem.
It continues to go out even as we speak.

But to me, the verses you've quoted thus far in no way demonstrate that a person can become one of the saved by performing an act.
As I see it, what you've quoted so far demonstrates that a person can do so, but not why they do so.

See my above.

There are indeed Scriptures that tell us how and why a person either believes the Gospel and God's words, or they do not.
Here are some of them:

John 6:37-47.
John 6:64-65.
John 17:2.
John 8:43-47.
John 10:26-27.
1 Corinthians 1:18-31.
1 Corinthians 2:6-16.

Respectfully,
I see nowhere in God's word that the Gospel and the belief of it is what actually saves a person.
Why you do, I cannot say...

But I was taught this growing up in Independent Baptist churches, and many years ago I came to understand the Scriptures differently when I was exposed to Romans 8:28-30, Ephesians 1:3-14, Ephesians 2:1-10, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 and Psalms 65:4 to name a few.
Rather, I see God doing the saving and keeping, and the Gospel is His message of salvation to those He has saved.

I also see that "saving" faith is a gift ( Ephesians 2:8 ), authored and finished by Jesus Christ ( Hebrew 12:2 ) and is the evidence of His work in the believer ( Hebrews 11:1 ). Not all men have it ( 2 Thessalonians 3:2 ), so not all men can "exercise" it. Therefore, it is not the means to eternal life, but the evidence of God having bestowed it upon someone.

Finally, performing an act or "making a decision" to receive something renders the gift a reward...
Eternal life is a gift ( Romans 6:23 ) and cannot be purchased by our own efforts ( Romans 4:4, Romans 11:5-6 ).
Otherwise, it would not be of grace, but of works.


May God bless you greatly in your studies.

 

The Lord Jesus Christ died a Covenant death for a great number of people that no man can number.
Luck has nothing to do with God's eternal purpose.
God saves a multitude of sinners. They are called in scripture the elect

why do you seem to hate these truths by ridiculing what is taught in scripture.
Perhaps you are one of those internet guys that are so smart that all teachers that God has given as gifts to the church cannot help
They cannot teach you anything right?
you suggest that I am maybe hiding behind Aw.Pink,lol
I will make the same offer to you that I have made to others...
You can phone me and it will just be me and you and open bibles.....We will see how you know so much more than I do,lol
Let me know if you want the phone number, others who make such boasts back down,lol

 

Amen.

MB,
We are given the answer plainly, for why some do not believe:

" Ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep." ( John 10:26 ).

Therefore, in order to believe on Christ, one must be a sheep.
Please see John 6:37-47 and John 6:64-65 for more.

 

So...unbelievers ,the non saved ,can believe?

 

Conviction is what brings men to repentance. Saved or not. We all sin and we all are convicted of it. We all have a conscience and know when we are doing things wrong.

Wrong again as I said before we all have a conscience

It is God's will that we all come to Him Jn 12:32

Yet not one verse says that men cannot believe until they are saved.

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Act 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
Act 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
If it weren't for the gospel no one would believe in Christ. The gospel is how we know of Christ other wise we would not know of Salvation in the first place.

What an imagination and what you just said is imagined.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

We believe that we might be saved. Faith is not a work
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
MB

 

Amen.
The Bible has nothing to do with John Calvin, and the Bible is truth.
Every word of it.
" But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth. " ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13 )

Amen.
But it is God's Spirit working in a person that brings someone to repentance.

However, I disagree with the underlined...
I see that not all men are supernaturally convicted of their sin, or all men would repent and believe.
That is what the power of God and God alone, does for everyone that is "called" by His Spirit.

That men have a conscience and that we know when we are doing wrong is not in question by me.
As I see it, the Bible very plainly tells us that all men know the difference between good and evil ( Romans 1:18-32 ).

I never said that men do not have a conscience.
I said that apart from God, we all remain blind to the fact that we need a Saviour.

But all men from the time of Adam's sin know exactly what the difference is between good and evil.

Yet, it appears to me that you've been unable to show the readers here any passages that say that a person "gets saved" by the act of belief.
We've been around this MB, and I keep showing you Scriptures that answer your questions.
If you disagree, then you disagree.

But, please do not tell me after I've presented Scripture, that there are no Scriptures that say " ________".

Amen!

Respectfully,
I've "imagined it" right off the page, MB.
That's why I listed the Scriptures for reference.

 

Amen yet again, sir.

Notice what I've underlined, and where our faith actually comes from as believers...
Jesus Christ, the author and finisher of it ( Hebrews 12:2 ).

It is the faith "of" ( by or from ) Christ.

Another "amen" my friend.
No work performed by men can save anyone.

But faith is also a gift ( Ephesians 2:8 ) which not everyone has ( 2 Thessalonians 3:2 ).

A final "amen!" to your quote sir.
Our faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen ( Hebrews 11:1 ).

The very fact that anyone has it, is clear testament to God's miraculous work by His Spirit in them.
The very fact that anyone who has it and endures to the end of their lives, through every trial and tribulation, never being moved away from the hope of the Gospel, is evidence ( not the means ) that a person has been justified by grace, by the blood of Christ and by God ( Romans 8:33 ).

It is God that justifies...
Therefore, our faith is the evidence of being made just in His sight.
We cannot and do not justify ourselves in the sight of God by providing something that only He can give and that is a product of His Son's obedience to Him.


As always, I wish you well in your studies...
and may the Lord be pleased to show you many things in His precious word.