Limited Spiritual Ability of the Fallen

[Van]

False, verse after verse says the fallen are able to discern some spiritual things, such as the attributes of God. Romans 1:19
The things of the Spirit refers to spiritual solid food, not spiritual milk, 1 Corinthians 3:1-3

the lost can not grasp either. nothing of God, Who is Spirit,
unless He Touches them, first.[/QUOTE]

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Note no mention is made of "understood because God Touched them." On argument from silence after another.

 

[Van]

turn that around, where it can do some good.

You are making, 'the kingdom of heaven', mean, 'Heaven', and you don't consider that it could have more expressive a meaning than that, by indicating, "The Entire Gospel Administration of The One and Only, True, and Living God's Eternal Covenant of Salvation, by Grace" ( and not some future, or Present Heaven, Where God Lives.
He Can let you see another meaning if HE Wants. He Runs Heaven and Wrote The Bible...)

Utterly off topic comment to change the subject. The next deflection might be how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

The fallen, in Matthew 23:13 are entering the kingdom of heaven, thus seeking God. So what does this poster claim, why the kingdom of heaven is not the abode of God. I kid you not.

 

[Van]

1Peter 1:10
As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries,
1Peter 1:11
seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

All through scripture are examples where people demonstrate limited spiritual ability, seeking to understand God's word.

No one seeks after God all the time. No one is seeking God when sinning. That is the biblical truth presented in Romans 3:11. The verse does not say no one ever seeks after God because that would conflict with many other scripture verses, such as Matthew 23:13, and 1 Peter 1:11.

 

[Van]

The premise that if people are said to be seeking God means they have been enabled so they no longer have total spiritual inability is ludicrous. Here is a verse that would require lots of Jews to be enabled. LOL

2Ch 11:16
Those from all the tribes of Israel who set their hearts on seeking the LORD God of Israel followed them to Jerusalem, to sacrifice to the LORD God of their fathers.

Limited Spiritual Ability, the ability to understand and respond to spiritual "milk" is demonstrated throughout scripture. The Law of Moses is said to lead people to Christ, once again showing the ability of the fallen to respond to God's word. Pay no attention to those who say they were enabled despite the fact the enablement is never mentioned.

 

[Iconoclast]

Your bogus doctrine says no one ever seeks God, thus this passage once again proves your "total spiritual inability" claim is bogus.

opps...you forgot this,lol
14 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

 

[atpollard]

No one seeks after God all the time.

More words found only in the Van Translation of scripture and not in any of the Greek manuscripts or English translations based on them.

 

[Iconoclast]

More words found only in the Van Translation of scripture and not in any of the Greek manuscripts or English translations based on them.

You have noticed a pattern,eh???

 

[Alan Gross]

the lost can not grasp either. nothing of God, Who is Spirit,
unless He Touches them, first.

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Note no mention is made of "understood because God Touched them." On argument from silence after another.[/QUOTE]

because He Didn't.

They are dead in trespasses and in SIN.

 

[Alan Gross]

Utterly off topic comment to change the subject. The next deflection might be how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

The fallen, in Matthew 23:13 are entering the kingdom of heaven, thus seeking God. So what does this poster claim, why the kingdom of heaven is not the abode of God. I kid you not.

you don't consider

I kid you not.

 

[Van]

opps...you forgot this,lol
14 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

The inability to discern truth from scripture is the hallmark of the deniers. I addressed the above truth, but the deniers ignore that response.

First, Consider Psalms 14:2 for just a second. If because of the bogus total spiritual inability claim, why did God who is all knowing look down to see if any did understand - meaning to act prudently - and seek God. Now God sees that they all have turned aside - sinned - and none do good because all their works of righteousness are as filthy rags. But wait, there is more. In verse 4 the question is asked, do all the workers of wickedness not know and not call upon the Lord. Now read verse 5. folks who understand - act prudently - are there in great dread. Thus they have spiritual ability sufficient to fear God. And they have sought God as a refuge. Verse 6, the Lord is their refuge. So once again the very text cited to show a lack of spiritual ability, actually shows spiritual ability.

 

[Van]

More words found only in the Van Translation of scripture and not in any of the Greek manuscripts or English translations based on them.

No one ever seeks God include the word "ever" not found in of the Greek Manuscripts or English translations. However more than a dozen verses have been cited where fallen people are seeking God. Their erroneous "interpretation" of Romans 3:11 requires that they nullify verse after verse teaching people do seek God, some by works and some by faith.

 

[37818]

The issue is the bogus claim no one ever seeks after God.

Where we, I think agree, Calvinists are wrong about rengeneration prior to faith in order to hear and believe the gospel. I trust we agree faith precedes Biblical regeneration. The gospel message is the means God uses prior to regeneration.

 

[Van]

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Note no mention is made of "understood because God Touched them." On argument from silence after another.

because He Didn't. They are dead in trespasses and in SIN.

Here the denier correctly says Romans 1:19 refers to people who are "dead in trespasses and in Sin." Therefore to be spiritually dead does not result in total spiritual inability.

 

[Van]

you don't consider
I kid you not.

Irrational nonsense.

 

[Van]

Act 17:26 (NIV)
From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.

Act 17:27 (NIV)
God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

Many scriptures teach God made us with the capacity to understand God's attributes such that we would seek Him, therefore confirming the biblical truth that fallen people have limited spiritual ability, able to understand and respond appropriately to spiritual milk, the fundamentals of the gospel.

 

[atpollard]

Their erroneous "interpretation" of Romans 3:11

There is no interpretation involved, we just READ IT ...

[Rom 3:11 KJV] 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
[Rom 3:11 NKJV] 11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
[Rom 3:11 NIV] 11 there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.
[Rom 3:11 NASB] 11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
[Rom 3:11 YLT] 11 There is none who is understanding, there is none who is seeking after God.
[Rom 3:11 DBY] 11 there is not the [man] that understands, there is not one that seeks after God.
[Rom 3:11 WEB] 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh God.

... and BELIEVE what it says.
(It is not a complex verse.)

 

[Van]

There is no interpretation involved, we just READ IT ...

[Rom 3:11 KJV] 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
[Rom 3:11 NKJV] 11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
[Rom 3:11 NIV] 11 there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.
[Rom 3:11 NASB] 11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
[Rom 3:11 YLT] 11 There is none who is understanding, there is none who is seeking after God.
[Rom 3:11 DBY] 11 there is not the [man] that understands, there is not one that seeks after God.
[Rom 3:11 WEB] 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh God.

... and BELIEVE what it says.
(It is not a complex verse.)

Repeating a verse that says no one seeks after God does not make it say no one ever seeks after God. But such is the absurdity of the deniers of Limited Spiritual Ability of the Fallen. Never mind the many verses that have people seeking after God some of the time. No one seeks after God all the time because we all sin. We have all turned aside. But in our fallen state, men of flesh can understand and respond to spiritual milk, 1 Corinthians 3:1.

Acts 17:26-27 (NIV) say God "did this so that they would seek him"

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

2Ch 11:16
Those from all the tribes of Israel who set their hearts on seeking the LORD God of Israel followed them to Jerusalem, to sacrifice to the LORD God of their fathers.

And many more...

 

[atpollard]

Many scriptures teach God made us with the capacity to understand God's attributes such that we would seek Him, therefore confirming the biblical truth that fallen people have limited spiritual ability, able to understand and respond appropriately to spiritual milk, the fundamentals of the gospel.

It is ironic that for all the times that you mention "spiritual milk", that phrase only appears once in scripture ...

1 Peter 2:1-3

Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby, if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious. - [NKJV]

So get rid of all evil behavior. Be done with all deceit, hypocrisy, jealousy, and all unkind speech. Like newborn babies, you must crave pure spiritual milk so that you will grow into a full experience of salvation. Cry out for this nourishment, now that you have had a taste of the Lord’s kindness. - [NLT]

Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good. -[NIV]

So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good. - [ESV]

So put away all malice and all guile and insincerity and envy and all slander. Like newborn babes, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up to salvation; for you have tasted the kindness of the Lord. -[RSV]​

... and in that one occurrence it is addressed to those that have already "tasted that the Lord is gracious" in order that they "may grow up into salvation" (growing up comes after birth, does it not).

To quote the Princess Bride:
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” – Inigo Montoya

 

[atpollard]

Repeating a verse that says no one seeks after God does not make it say no one ever seeks after God.

I only repeat verses for the comfort of those that have a "favorite" translation and to avoid accusations that I am cherry-picking translations.

I do not NEED to make it say "EVER". I have no need to add or remove any words. I have only to choose to believe what God says or to deny what God says. I choose to believe that "there is no one who seeks God" means "there is no one who seeks God". So if you ask me "Who seeks God?" I will answer "No one." because that is who God says seeks God and I am willing to take God at His word. After all, who should know better than Him?

 

[Van]

It is ironic that for all the times that you mention "spiritual milk", that phrase only appears once in scripture ...

1 Peter 2:1-3

Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby, if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious. - [NKJV]
SNIP​

/QUOTE]

Now to change the subject, it is suggested that spiritual "milk" the fundamentals of the gospel cannot be supported from scripture. Obfuscation on display