Featured Simple way that the bible teaches Free Will

That is the core of the Doctrines of Grace. It is WITHOUT the convicting of the Holy Spirit that men are incapable of turning to the Lord. The convicting of the Holy Spirit (an act of God) is the ONLY WAY that a fallen man IS ABLE to turn to the Lord.

[Ephesians 2:1-10 NASB] 1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.​

 

and Jesus says that this "convicting" by the Holy Spirit is for the "entire world", read John 16:1-9

 

You do not even have the curtesy of defending your doctrines by showing how those verses confirms your claims, in their contexts. It is dishonest if you ask me to state a premise and then merely associate a bunch of verse references as confirmation for your claims. It essentially subjugates those verses to your premise. Try teaching in that manner in your church next Sunday and see if you are invited back for another lesson. You cut and paste what some lost man has written and whom you are following and your defense of yourself leaves us in the very spot where we started and that is you deny the clear and unambiguous promises of God to save men from the penalty of their sins through the sacrifice of Christ, his burial and resurrection from the dead, if they will simply believe from the heart in what he did and that God will keep his word and really do what he says he will do. The term "if" establishes a condition and God says in the text I quoted above, and many other texts I could quote, that he will save men if they will believe him, not when they believe him.

Jesus Christ dealt with the problem that all men have that separates them from God and that problem is sin. God reports that he took it away at the cross and God said in Isaiah that he was satisficed with his offering. John said his sacrifice for the sin of the world propitiated God. Paul said that since Jesus, and because Jesus, became sin for us and was punished by God, our sin is not imputed to us while we live. God has been reconciled to sinners because sin has been taken away. However, reconciliation is a two way street and the preacher is telling the sinner, who has the sin in him, this good news that God is not angry with him any longer because of Jesus and he may be reconciled to God by confessing he is a sinner and trusting what Jesus Christ has done for him in paying the awful penalty for his sin. The preacher will say that God will receive him and justify him and forgive him in the name of Jesus Christ. If the sinner, hearing this, desires reconciliation with God he will come to God through Christ and be saved. This is the only way to be saved. There is no other way. You may read this good news in 2 Cor 5:13 through 2 Cor 6:3.

To teach what you teach is to deny that Christ has taken sin away and that God is still angry with sinners. You say that God is still imputing sin to the sinner in spite of what Christ has done for the world. Yours is a false gospel.

Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

What if a man does not believe in Christ while he lives?

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

2 Cor 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

I hope you will see the truth and repent.

 

Show me the generation of Israel that CHOSE to do right before God under the Law?

While we are waiting, I offer:

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures." - [Romans 1:18-23 NASB]​

• "that which is known about God is evident within them" - (All?) People have the knowledge of the existence of God within them.
• "for God made it evident to them" - God told them (choice/command?)
• "so that they are without excuse" - The reason was not so they would have a choice, the reason was to leave them without excuse when ...
• "even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks" - People did just as they pleased anyway.

 

Where?

16 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.
5 But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?
6 But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

 

I was merely offering you the tools to learn the correct definition of "Unconditional Election". I have no vested interest in whether you believe it or reject it, that is a matter between your conscience and God. I merely hoped to educate you that "unconditional" does not mean that there are no conditions to our salvation, so you will stop defeating strawmen. I see that your ignorance is deliberately self-inflicted ... so tilt away at those windmills, Don Quixote!

 

"JD731,

[QUOTE]I have come to the definite conclusion that Calvinism, whether it is hyper Calvinism or unhyper Calvinism is pseudo Christianity and is as dangerous as a cocked gun to the soul of man.[/QUOTE]
Many who say such things cannot accurately explain the teaching. I know many who start that way and in time come to see things clearer.

Here you presuppose this concept exists. It exists in the realm of carnal philosophical thought and is not once mentioned in scripture. If it is not in scripture, it is not reality.

It is all true and made known by scripture. I have to question anyone who makes such a radical statement as to if they grasp basic bible teaching. To deny millions of Christians and all the major confessions of faith, while you are free to do so, makes your position quite suspect.

The bible assumes no such thing. It does not mention free will, because it teaches the fall into sin and death. It is laughable to comment that the bible assumes a carnal philosophical idea.

Here is the first of many contradictions...
"No man can have the free will to believe"...unless
Either man has free will, or he does not. Your explanation here shows it is not true.

Conditions??

You totally ignore special revelation of God's covenant.

Ignoring the problem of sin and death and the noetic effects of the fall.

You are in the deep end of the pool and cannot swim theologically. This post demonstrates once again objections that have no basis in reality. You do not understand the biblical teaching but rather are piecing together fragmented thoughts to poison the well.
You can do that if you must, but it is not wise.

What is not true is your ideas.

Not in scripture.

So once again we have someone who suggests all the confessional Christians are unbelieving deniers of the Christian faith, because they cannot get to first base doctrinally....no thanks

 

Conviction is what brings all men to Christ yet when a non Calvinist like my self tells the story of my conviction the Calvinist tells me this is impossible that I can't save my self and there ears go deaf when I say that I didn't save myself.
MB

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[/QUOTE]

 

does not the passage from Romans 1 require those who "suppress the Truth", to have the "ability" to do this, or are their actions preordained by God, as they have no "free capability"?

 

proving exactly what?

 

Neither of the Calvinists who have addressed my comments have tried to deal with my text, Romans 10, where I posted the conditions for saving faith that God put forth. Those conditions are 1. hearing the gospel of Christ, and 2. believing the gospel of Christ.

Those who do not hear the gospel will not be saved, and that has nothing to do with election. Those who hear and do not believe the gospel will not be saved, and that has nothing to do with pre election of Calvinism.

In Romans 10, God, who Calvinism claims has predetermined men to be lost, gives us the imagery of a father standing before his son (Israel) who has not come to him with arms outstretched attempting all day long to coaxe his son into coming to him. All day long at this time Romans 10 was written was from AD 30 until AD 58, 28 years.

What is the matter with God who has such a desire for Israel to be saved when he has already decided never to save them? If Calvinism is true God is appearing crazy.

Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. (Why?)

20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

21 But to Israel (the unbelievers in this chapter) he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

 

I do not think that the Lord Jesus Christ agrees with you;

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

That is because most Calvinists and Reformed, so called, much rather use their "theology", than what the Bible actually teaches. Like their insistence that "kosmos" in John 3:16-17 must mean the "elect", whereas the context and Greek lexicons all agree, including some honest "reformed", like Dabney, that it means, "the entire human race"; which is exactly the main man for them, John Calvin says!

 

I know LOTS of addicts. Without exception, every single one of them has the physical capability of not injecting a needle into their arm or snorting a powder into their nose. These physical tasks are trivially simple and they are not being controlled by some outside force that steals their muscle control. In exactly the same way, the demands of God's Law are trivially simple to do from a physical standpoint. It requires no more physical energy to tell the truth than it does to lie (and a lot less mental energy to remember the truth than to think of and remember a lie). No outside force compels a hand to steal contrary to the will of its owner. Nothing command us to hoard toilet paper when we hear there might be a shortage.

Yet somehow, every one of those addicts, freely chose to confront dangerous people to obtain drugs, risked prison to transport those drugs, risked death to take those drugs and knew all along that those drugs were killing them, making their teeth fall out, costing them both their families and all of their money. Time after time, they still chose the drugs. Their body was physically addicted and demanded those drugs. Their mind was poisoned and constantly thought of nothing but those drugs. Their soul was defeated and had surrendered to inevitable slavery to those drugs.

Since there is no physical obstruction to each and every person living a completely sinless life (no command of God is physically impossible and most are physically trivial ... like Do not eat from this one Tree), then why does EVERYBODY (100%) choose to sin? The answer I see clearly presented in the BIBLE is that we all are "sin addicts". We are born into a natural body whose flesh physically craves sin. We have a mind that cannot help but think about the next quick 'high' that sin will bring us. We have a soul that wants to be "captain of our own destiny" and even knowing that God exists will stubbornly refuse to bend knee to any God except one that WE CHOOSE ... which means one that we can control our destiny.

So everyone has "free capability". Everyone can do what God commands (they have the physical capability of telling the truth). Everyone will freely choose to reject the commands of God. They will do this because God has NOT made men robots but has given us all the freedom to follow our nature and indulge our "sin addiction".

In His infinite wisdom and mercy, God has chosen to hold an "intervention" and deliver some from their "sin addiction" thereby setting them free to freely choose the other option.

[Rom 7:14-24 NASB] 14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I [would] like to [do,] but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want [to do,] I agree with the Law, [confessing] that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good [is] not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

[Rom 8:1-8 NASB] 1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God [did:] sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and [as an offering] for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able [to do so,] 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.​

 

For what it is worth, I do not pass judgement on anyone's salvation story. You and God were there, I was not. I only pass judgement on MY salvation story (for the same reason ... only God and I were there).

Where you and I disagree on "salvation" are a few minor details:

1. Conviction does not bring "all men without exception" to Christ, it only brings those that are saved.
2. "Faith" is part of the "gift from God" in Ephesians 2:8-9, so it does not originate from within fallen men.
3. "Calvinists" do not believe what you claim we believe.

As far as you and I go, we may only actually disagree on #2 with the rest being a matter of semantics. However I would never claim that is a distinction that threatens your "salvation". To the very best of my knowledge, you are saved and we may be forced to live as neighbors in heaven.

We can debate over the fence like Wilson on 'Home Improvement'.

 

The topic is Free Will and neither Calvinist disagrees with Romans 10.
Why should we debate a non-issue that we agree with?

These are two of my favorite verses in the Bible. They make it simple but they keep it real:

that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. - [Rom 10:9-10 NASB]​

 

I always find this verse interesting.

peace to you

 

What is the term for someone that knows the truth and deliberately spreads an untruth?

John Calvin is NOT the "main man" for us. The closest that you will come is "the Apostle Paul" is the "main man" for us since Pauline Theology (not a bad word, it just means the study of God) is at the core of the Reformation.

 

You made a statement and sent me to read John 16 for proof:

I read John 16:1-9 like you said:

I did not see where ... "Jesus says that this 'convicting' by the Holy Spirit is for the 'entire world' "
So I asked you ...

Hoping you would explain how John 16:1-9 says what you claim.

 

I am Classical Arminian and hold to the same Total Depravity Calvinist do. Can man do good in and of himself? Can a totally Depraved man do any good? It would all depend on the definition of good.