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Jesus THE Creator - Part 1

V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
is there ONE text from the OT that says this? When, for example it says in Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created..." Who is this?
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Again, scripture cannot be broken. You cannot shop nullify scripture.
I am not going to waste time explaining who is being referred to in Genesis 1:1.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yeshua1 said:
Do you believe that all are in Adam destined for hell unless saved by the grace of God?
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What does scripture say? I have answered this question more times than I can remember. John 3:18 ring a bell?
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Note the Order of Persons

1. Matthew 28:19,

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"

2. 2 Corinthians 13:14,

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen"

3. Ephesians 4:4-6

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

Who, is subordinate to Who? This in itself shows that The Three are 100% COEQUAL. Take a look at the OP, where I have shown from 1 Corinthians 1:9, where God the Father is working "on behalf of" Jesus Christ. This is "subordination". In Galatians 1:1, both Jesus and the Father JOINTLY send Paul as an Apostle. Note the order of Persons here, Jesus First, then the Father. Like in John 10:28-29, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.". Again, Jesus is First!
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The three Persons are a 100% CO-EQUAL are so as the one and the same God. So unless rhere is also subordination of the Persons then are not they, such as Persons.
A son is subordinate to a father. One who is sent is subordenate to one's sender.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Order is a subordenation.
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says who? There are EQUAL CEO's in a company, who are known as, first director, second, third, etc. They are still all CEO's, why does referring to them as first, second, third, make any "subordinate" to the other?
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
please don't listen to the persons "logic", as it is really "nonsense"!
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I appreciate your passion for your position, but please don’t refer to another position as nonsense.

Im really attempting to understand the issue here, and that doesn’t help.

As I see it, the question is:

Does a doctrine of functional subordination among co-equal persons within the Godhead necessarily mean actual subordination, leading to greater/lesser persons within the Godhead?

Biblically, it is clear there is no actual subordination within the Godhead. Each person contains all attributes of God.

Your initial post attempted to demonstrate through the study of Greek/Hebrew that scripture doesn’t really teach functional subordination beyond the incarnation.

I must admit I’m not convinced. You acknowledge functional subordination with the incarnation, but not prior or after.

Why does functional subordination during the incarnation not lead to the same issues you are arguing against... that is one person within the Godhead is “greater” than another? If it doesn’t, why would those issues arise prior to incarnation and after ascension?

I will consider all the info. I’ll even re-read your initial post which was not particularly clear to me.

Again, thanks for the info

peace to you
 
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37818

37818

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
says who? There are EQUAL CEO's in a company, who are known as, first director, second, third, etc. They are still all CEO's, why does referring to them as first, second, third, make any "subordinate" to the other?
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Yes. If they are a 1st, 2nd and so on. If they are equal they cannot be the same. The Persons who are God are one and the same God not three God's like 3 CEO's.
 
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SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
canadyjd said:
Isn’t that using man’s logic (Webster’s)

I haven’t seen anyone argue actual subordination, but functional subordination

peace to you
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which ever way you take it, any form of "subordination" within the Godhead, equates to the Persons being "unequal", and therefore the has to be hierarchy in the Godhead, which is an impossibility if the Three are YHWH. This whole idea of "subordination", prior to the Incarnation, is heretical.
 
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