Featured Adam versus believers

Yes, Adam had and lost eternal life.

No.
“But not as the offence, so also is the free gift.” [Romans 5:15]

No, God did not create a spiritually dead Adam.
Adam had a relationship with God.
[Gen 2:7, 16-17, 21-22]

Good question with an important answer.
What do YOU think scripture says happened?

 

Of course Adam was spiritually alive prior to the fall. He was created body, soul, and spirit, and he, his spirit, was in right relationship to God.

When Adam sinned, he, his spirit and soul, and body died. Meaning he, his spirit and soul, and body were separated from God, and death began working in his body.

You ask if believers, as Adam, can lose eternal life? There is a difference between believers and Adam today. Adam was right with God and then sinned. Believers are first born lost in this world, then get saved. That which secures believers was not yet present in experience, when Adam fell. It was in the works.

A couple of questions to consider also: Is there, or was there, any doubt that God would not save Adam and Eve? And, why should He? I mean they were just two people. Why not destroy them and make two others? Look how many billions have gone to hell in allowing them to live.

Do you believe Adam and Eve were children of God and saved after the fall?

Quantrill

 

Correction in above post, #(3). I meant to say "any doubt that God would save Adam and Eve?"

Quantrill

 

I think that you already know the answers to those questions, "Agent 47".

But to answer your questions for the benefit of other readers,
I'll break it down according to my understanding of the Scriptures so far.

 

I agree.

Romans 5:12-14. <--- Sin entered into the world by Adam and Eve.
Romans 1:18-25. <--- "When they knew God"...

Spiritual life is to know God ( John 17:3 ), and Adam and Eve certainly knew the Lord at one point.

No.
He possessed spiritual life, which is to know God;
But it was not eternal or he would not have died, spiritually.

Eternal life is a gift ( Romans 6:23 ) given by Christ to those that the Father has given to Him ( John 17:2 ).
Those who are given this gift ( eternal life ), shall never die ( John 11:25-26 ).

No.
John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:39-40, John 10:28-29, Romans 8:31-39, 1 Peter 1:5 and many others.

No.

Adam knew God, so he was spiritually alive...
and then, relationally and because of his disobedience to God's command, spiritually separated himself from that relationship.
Sin drove a wedge between him and the Lord...

A wedge that became ever wider due to mankind's increasing love of sin and God's decision to give us over to that which we came to love.

 

And we have to be careful not to fall into the trap of making the Bible not say what it so clearly says in order to make it comply with our faulty understanding of what a logical fallacy is.

 

Hello Brother,
Of course you are correct here.
People have understood these truths for a long time as God has given us all that pertains to life and godliness.
Have you ever contemplated how a professed Christian turns into a John Shelby Spong?
They trust in their flawed education and philosophy, convinced that they alone see what millions of believers have not seen.
They make all kinds of philosophical double talk,and confuse the clear teaching with obtuse novelties, or failed ideas and set themselves up as the last word.
A denial of the events of the fall,leads to a tragic series of errors,affecting every area of theology.
Even in our day we see this as supposed teachers set the bar low, and hit it.

 

I agree with the sentiments expressed.

Death for Adam was always "in the cards," as was Life through "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." This had to be for God's love for man to be made manifest and complete.

There is a "secular" song I cannot hear the words to without picturing Jesus headed to and on the Cross, as well as hear his words echoing, "Follow me." Here's just the chorus to "I Want to Know What Love Is", but the whole song is good.

I wanna know what love is
I want you to show me
I wanna feel what love is
I know you can show me

 

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Gen 1:26,27 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Psalms 8:4,5
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Gen 2:7

At some point in time one must ask oneself why was the creation of man out of dirt?

for to vanity was the creation made subject -- not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it -- in hope, Rom 8:20

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it was thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. Gen 3:19

What was the plan for the man formed from dirt? Was, hope, the plan before the man was made from dirt?

 

and him who was made some little less than messengers we see -- Jesus -- because of the suffering of the death, with glory and honour having been crowned, that by the grace of God for every one he might taste of death. Heb 2:9

Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death -- that is, the devil -- Heb 2:14

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1 Peter 1:18-20
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev 13:8

and one in a certain place did testify fully, saying, 'What is man, that Thou art mindful of him, or a son of man, that Thou dost look after him? Thou didst make him some little less than messengers, with glory and honour Thou didst crown him, and didst set him over the works of Thy hands,

Why was man, Adam made a little lower than the angels, made from dirt?

Was it because even before man was created, the devil had the power of the death?

 

Nice speech...but this is a forum. Some questions may be silly to me yet important to another. So you ask them and talk it out.

You place your views of what Scripture is saying above anyone else's. Everyone just needs to 'observe and obey' what you say Scripture says.

Quantrill

 

Why are you asking me?. You set yourself up as the judge as to what is Scripture, or what Scripture says, not me.

So, read post #(3), and let me know your verdict.

Was I reasoning from Scripture, or did I add to Scripture?

Quantrill

 

A scripture reading itself does always explain the text in full or we would only be told just read scripture out loud. We are told to search out, to study scripture.

The Spirit is given to allow us to welcome spiritual truth. Some deny this, but it is plain.
Adam died Spiritually at the fall, Romans 5 is clear on this. Some deny it, and invent novelties .

It does not use the term born again in Acts. Does that mean no one was born again there?
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.