Featured Adam versus believers

We have to be very careful when men decide something not in the Bible is the "plain teaching", "natural reading", or "obvious meaning" of a biblical text. There are many followers of men who are wolves in sheep clothing.

That is one sign of a cult - "Scripture says this but teaches this other thing". It is of a spirit, but not the Spirit.

Trust in Scripture. Develop your understanding. But lean on God's Word and not your own understanding.

It is not wrong to hold extra-biblical views (we all do). But it is a sin against God to add to His Word your interpretation or understanding.

Spiritual maturity includes making that distinction.

Man's wisdom deals in hypothetical and philosophical arguments (like what if Adam did not eat the fruit). God's wisdom, spiritual truth, is the application of what is written to one's life.

 

A word of caution -

This could be misunderstood as a claim that the belief Adam would have lived forever (a hypothetical) is a "deep thing of God".

As far as I know you, like me, reject the idea of second special revelation and hold Scripture as our authority.

But another reading your post may not know this. I point it out as anyone could say anything extra-biblical and add it's "plain teaching", "the natural reading", or "obvious meaning" as a way of "proving their point". That is what cult members do. And that is why we use the Bible to guard against these wolves (even well-meaning ones, which I suspect are the majority).

I'm sure you would never claim Calvinism to be the "deep things" of God or "spiritual truth", even though you are a Calvinist (because you are also a Christian). You grasp (I think) the difference between God's Word and human understanding of God's Word, and of biblical doctrine vs Spiritual truth. This thread is about a purely hypothetical (and God is not a God of "if's") so it is even less important a topic.

 

You misunderstand.

I am saying people can interpret the Bible differently. People can have beliefs beyond the text of Scripture. We all do.

But it is wrong to add to Scripture what is not actually in Scripture. Cult leaders will tell you "deep truths" of God in addition to what God has actually revealed.

You are assuming God's Word is subjective. It is not.

We can see what is written and what is not. If it is not written you can still believe it. But do not expect others to agree that your extra-biblical ideas are actually God's Word.

 

Please be careful not to lie or misrepresent my position. We get enough of this with politicians this time of the year .

I have never denied that Adam was created with a human spirit.

I am saying Scripture interprets Scripture and human philosophy is misleading. With this topic you have to add illogical reasoning (some do make logical errors and conclude Adam would have lived forever....I am glad you are not among those).

I was not rejecting what you wrote but only pointing out for clarity it could be misinterpreted to suggest cognitive acceptance of a human understanding or interpretation is "spiritual truth".

 

It would be those who add to Scrioture the "plain teachings", "obvious meaning", or "natural reading" of Scripture.

The reason is they replace God's Word with their understanding of God's Word.

You can know a wolf by their misguided words (their understanding/ interpretations are the "deep things" of God, the Spirit led them to these extra-biblical theories or doctrines, theirs is the plain reaching of scripture, the obvious meaning, the natural reading....etc.).

Professing to be wise they are indeed fools - NOT because of their interpretations but because they elevate their understanding to the point of Scripture. They are spiritually blind and often cannot tell the difference between Hod's Word and their own.

Sometimes it is an issue of spiritual immaturity. Sometimes of biblical illiteracy. Sometimes flawed thinking or logic. I believe rarely is it intentional.

Yes, the Bible points them out. You can tell a wolf by listening to them, Bible and highlighter in hand. When they attribute something to Scripture rather than interpretation highlight it in your Bible. If it is not there you may very well be in the presence of a wolf.

Wolves and false teachers make no room for other interpretations by replacing God's Word with their own

 

You said that I denied "there was a point in time when the reality of spiritual death entered the whole human race." That is not true, but I understand you believe it is true.

Given this thread is about the hypothetical state of Adam had he not eaten of the fruit I thought that was the context of your statement.

What I believe is that without the indwelling of the Spirit we do not possess spiritual life (ontologically). We must be born again. Because of Adam sin entered tge world (and death through sin, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God).

Adam's disobedience made spiritual death a reality. I am not sure how you became confused regarding my position, but that's ok.

 

I already agreed with you that you were not discussing Adam living forever or Adam having a human spirit. I was trying to take your comments in context of the thread rather than in context of spiritual death. I apologize for misunderstanding your point.

But you made a false accusation. This is why I say that you are confused about what I believe (you are not grasping what I have said, and that has led to a lack of understanding on your part about my positions).

This shows your error:

I believe (and have always believed) that men are born spiritually dead because all sinned in Adam. It is wrong of you to even imply I denied this.

I believe (and have always believed) that there was one point in time when the reality of Spiritual death entered the whole human race. It was wrong of you to imply that I denied this.

I see this type of behavior enough in politics. Politicians often keep repeating lies about other people, about what they have said, in hopes that others will believe their false claims true. Biden did this when he accused Trump of calling all Mexicans rapists. Now there are some who actually believe the lie.

So to clarify to the board and anyone following this thread or our dialogue - I have never denied that men are born spiritually dead or that there was a point in time when the reality of not only spiritual death but physical death entered the whole human race. In fact, affirming those two truths is a major part of my denial of evolution.

What @Iconoclast posted is a false accusation (I have never denied what he claims I have denied). But I am sure he posted out of ignorance rather than malice.

Now think about that. If @Iconoclast comes up with an idea about me that is fiction, and I really do not matter, then what does this say about handling Scripture? If you cannot be trusted with the small stuff then you can't be trusted with the big stuff. We have to go back to the source (here @Iconoclast should have come to me, and I should have gone to him). With doctrine we go back to the source (God's Word). The problem with claiming a second "special revelation" (which is what we are really speaking of here) is that it cannot be confirmed with Scripture because it is interpretation and not actually God's Word.

The "deep things" of God and "spiritual truths" are not additional special revelations but an application of God's Word in our lives (on a spiritual level).

 

I do not know. I am saying that we should not add to Scripture. When we interpret a passage to mean something we need to take ownership of that interpretation and not say it is Scripture if it is in fact not.

I am not saying anyone is adding....although I'm sure if I look I can find examples of exactly that.

Are you suggesting it is OK to add to Scripture?

 

I'm saying when you see someone say "abc" and then claim that is a "deep truth of God", or "the plain meaning", "natural reading", or "obvious meaning" of a text then you need to watch out because you are addressing someone who is a false teacher (either intentionally or out of ignorance). Those words are used when people who cannot defend their positions want to puff up their words to the level of Scripture.

I am not saying anyone is adding to Scripture. I tell my son to be careful crossing the road. That does not mean I just saw someone get hit by a car.