Texas talking about leaving the USA

It's not a question of 'who' desires war. It's an understanding of the division that exists in the U.S. And that neither side can live under the others rule. And, it's not going to get better. It's going to get worse. And war is the inevitable result. No one desires it. But the U.S. is helpless to stop it.

Christians who live in the U.S. and enjoy their freedoms of being Christian and free worship of Christ, do so because those early Christians were willing to go to war to protect their way of life. The wars with the Indians were Christian vs Heathen. I guess you can criticize them for destroying the Indians and establishing a Christian based political government. All the while reaping the benefits of their wars.

And, concerning (Heb. 11:13-16), those people described were used by God to destroy many heathen. God prepared the political system Israel would be under that protected them. And to do so, He took them into war. Read the book of (Joshua). And, later, they had to go to war to maintain their way of life. Read the book of (Judges).

It is my opinion that there is no place for pacifism in the Christian faith.

Quantrill

 

What was left of the ancient Israelite theocracy was destroyed in 70 A.D. The United States, or England, or any other country, did not replace it and assume its place.

Nowhere in the New Testament are Christians told to take up arms to overthrow the pagan Roman government and establish religious liberty. And those early Christians were so persecuted that Christians in the United States in 2020 whining about being persecuted really need to take a reality check. If the United States government starts executing Christians for preaching the gospel, please let me know.

 

No, its not. I lived through the 1960s with riots and protests even the members of the National Guard firing on college students during a protest, and during the 1970s with stagflation and gasoline shortages and dangerous war in the Middle East and that was as divided a time as we have today - and war was not the inevitable result. Christians really need to stop the talk of insurrection. Redstate.com has already put the kibosh on it to protect itself in case some nut job(s) actually commits violence and the person can be traced back to posting on their website or getting the idea from a post on their website. I think Baptist Board should do the same, lest the administrators of this site run the risk of a visit by the Department of Homeland Security.

 

There will be war.


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No, there won’t be, at least not to any extent. The U.S. military would crush your effort at insurrection in little time.

 

I would hope none as they are supposed to defend the U.S. Constitution against those trying to take it down like Donald Trump and his acolytes are attempting to do.

 

Dead Babies in the Constitution, Ken.
Tell us some more about your wonderful new party while you rail against the President.

 

THE OUTWORKING OF THE ABRAHAMIC COVENANT IN POST BIBLICAL HISTORY

Many events in history that are labeled peculiar, unusual, or impossible to understand can best be understood if viewed as a result of the outworking of the Abrahamic Covenant. There have been numerous attempts to destroy the Jews, and all have failed. Essentially, the four methods that were used during the biblical period have been the same ones used ever since, and these methods will always fail in destroying the Jews. Like Abimelech, the Crusaders took away wives. Like the Egyptians, the Spanish Empire killed the sons. Like the Persian Empire, Germany made anti Semitism the official government policy. Like the Amalekites, the Arab states have declared war upon the Jews.

These methods cannot and will not work in destroying them. After two thousand years, numerous examples can be given of how the Abrahamic Covenant has worked itself out, but this study will be limited to four: Spain, England, Germany, and Jordan.

A. Spain
Because of its great Armada, the Spanish Empire controlled vast parts of the world. The fact that every nation south of the United States except Brazil speaks Spanish is an indication of what the Spanish Empire once was. The Spanish economy was strong, and as a result so was everything else. In 1492, the same year that Columbus set sail for America, the Spanish Edict of Expulsion ordering all Jews to leave the country was issued. With this act, Spain blundered. When she expelled her Jews, she expelled her scholars, doctors, and bankers. The Spanish economy thus began to crumble and collapse. Finally, the source of Spain's strength, the Armada, sailed against England and was destroyed, not so much by the British navy as by a storm at sea. The Abrahamic Covenant had worked itself out. She, who expelled the Jews, was then expelled from her holdings in the western hemisphere until nothing remained.

Another point involving Spain shows the blessing aspect beginning to work as well. The story of how Queen Isabella sold her jewels in order to buy the three ships for Columbus breaks down under some cool historical research. It was not Queen Isabella's jewels, but Queen Isabella's “Jews” who purchased the three ships for Columbus. History shows that two Jewish banking families bought the ships. Many of the men on the three vessels were Jews fleeing Spain as a result of the Edict of Expulsion. According to Columbus' own diary, the first one to spot land was a Jew sitting in the crow's nest. Also, according to his diary, the first one off his ship was his interpreter, Louis de Torres, a Spanish Jew. As Europe was slowly beginning to close its doors to the Jews, the New World was discovered that was eventually to become the greatest haven for Jews fleeing persecution around the world in the form of the United States. The United States became and remains what she is today mainly because of the blessing aspect of the Abrahamic Covenant.

B. England
England provides a second example of the outworking of the Abrahamic Covenant. There was a time when England was blessed by God because of her favorable attitude to the Jews, and they were able to boast, “The sun never sets on the British Empire.” It was a Messianic believer, Benjamin Disraeli, who gained for England the two vital links that made her the British Empire: India and the Suez Canal. The Balfour Declaration of World War I showed England's favorable attitude toward establishing a Jewish national home in Palestine, later captured from the Turks. But then she made an about face and turned against the Jews; England began to limit Jewish immigration in effect annulling the Balfour Declaration. This policy trapped many Jews, preventing their flight from the Nazis. As a result, the British Empire began to crumble as one nation after another declared its freedom from the Empire. Finally, the very possessions gained for her by Jews, India and the Suez Canal, were also lost. The result is that today, the sun does indeed set on the British Empire-every twenty four hours.

C . Germany
Germany provides the third example. When Hitler came to power, anti Semitism became the official government policy. In 1939, as the Germans drew the world again into war, this policy began to spread to the occupied parts of Europe. As one nation after another fell, the Jews were taken and moved into the slum sections of major cities such as Warsaw. Concrete walls were built around these ghettos, and the Jews were slowly beaten and starved. The Gestapo had a favorite game, which consisted of taking one Jew and forcing him to kill another Jew in order to save the life of his own family. The Jews were forced to go into hiding as Nazis systematically sought them out. Six million were finally exterminated.

However, after six years Germany was no longer the conqueror, but the conquered. For a generation, the Germans who once built walls around the Jews, had a wall cutting their once proud capital of Berlin in half. For forty years, the people who once forced Jews to kill Jews had Germans killing Germans who tried to make their escape over the Berlin Wall. To this day, Nazi war criminals are forced to live in hiding as they are sought out by Jews.

D. Jordan
The fourth example involves the four Arab states of Syria, Iraq, Jordan, and Egypt, all of whom combined their forces in 1967 with the avowed purpose of destroying Israel. Nasser vowed that the Jews would be driven into the Mediterranean Sea and forced to swim back to Europe, from where they had come. King Hussein swore to move his border so as to encompass all of Palestine. After four days of the Six Day War, however, it was not the Jews but the Egyptians who were doing the swimming as they fled across the Suez Canal from the Israeli forces. As for King Hussein, after three days his border was indeed moved-but in the opposite direction. The Arabs cursed the Jewish State with war and were defeated by war.

All this provides a unique picture of the sub principle: Curse for curse in kind. God's philosophy of history involved in the Abrahamic Covenant provides the principles for understanding how the Gentile nations are related to the Jews.


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I understand. Too much reading in prior response.

I know the left are irretrievably lost.

 

Intriguing history, though a bit skewed. Jew against Jew was not invented by the Nazis. Just read the Bible. The rest of history follows suit. Jewish conflict in the form of secular vs religious is a constant theme. Jews in rebellion to God have been at the heart of many vile and disastrous movements.

 

That doesn't matter. The verses you quote in (Heb. 11) speak to those who lived during the times when God was using them to destroy the heathen.

The point about providing a political safeguard for Christians is what God was doing when He established America. It is what God was doing when He established the nation of Israel. It was not what God was doing with the Roman government.

When God creates and builds a Christian people, a Christian nation, how are the Christians not responsible for it's maintenance? Since when are we to turn the reigns over to the worldly atheists to run what God has established?

What if the U.S. government says you can't bring up politics in your church? What if the U.S. government says you must allow gays, lesbians, and transgenders in your church? What if it is a 'hate crime' to do or not do these things? Which it will be.

So, yes, I will let you know when this all begins.

Quantrill

 

Oh yes. You would love to 'kibosh' free speech. That is what the left does best. Why? Because it presents a united front against them.

Big deal, you lived through the 60's. That was just the beginning. And it has led up to where we are today. The 60's was a clash between Christian and pagan culture. And Christianity lost. Which is why we are where we are at today.

And where we are at today is 'no compromise' in the divisions of America. If you can think of a compromise on the issues dividing America today, list them.

Quantrill

 

That may be, though that is not my perception. I see that the Dems are hell-bent on establishing yet another outright antichrist government in the guise of establishing "a righteous kingdom on earth." Just like others before them, they couch their agenda in appealing rhetoric, even twisting and wresting Scripture to appeal to Christians. Here is a blasphemous beaut from one of their own Baptist masterminds.

"As the Scripture says, our eyes have not yet seen, nor our ears heard, nor our minds imagined what we can build." –Bill Clinton, DNC Acceptance Speech, July 1992.

 

Why try to influence when you won't even vote?

 

No, all governments are not necessarily antichrist by definition. Only governments that deny God, supplant God, suppress the Gospel can be so labeled. By definition, government that allows Christian influence is not antichrist.

It seems that you are inadvertently making an argument in favor of holding the very position you accuse others of wrongly seeking, namely that worldly government should in effect be God's kingdom on earth or not exist at all. The former is an impossibility, the latter an appeal for anarchy and lawlessness.