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Featured The Gospel of the Kingdom

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JonC, Dec 21, 2020.

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  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    You adding things. The verse is speaking about what happened to people Christ died for. What does the verse say ? Where they reconciled or not while being enemies?
     
    #101 Brightfame52, Dec 23, 2020
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Sir, please address my comments. I answered with great clarity your question. Did I not say they were enemies when reconciled?
    You, or more accurately the Calvinism you advocate, claims being "enemies" means unable to seek God or trust in Christ. Now that Sir is "adding."

    To be an "enemy" of God simply means to be alienated and hostile, which is the result of being fallen and unregenerate. Thus when the fallen set their mind on fleshly desires, they are hostile to God and His desires. But the fallen can set their minds on some spiritual things, such as the milk of the gospel. The claim the fallen are unable to set their minds on some spiritual things is not found in scripture, but the fallen setting their minds some of the time on spiritual things is found throughout scripture. Recall the many that seek the narrow path that leads to life.
     
    #102 Van, Dec 23, 2020
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Sorry, I did not mean "ignoring" as if you are ignoring Scripture. Perhaps "emphasizing" or "overemphasizing at the expense of other doctrines" is more appropriate.

    Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. (2 Co 5:18–19).
     
    #103 JonC, Dec 23, 2020
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    JonC seems to be echoing Wright here on the Kingdom, as that was how Wright was redefining Pauline Justification!
     
    #104 Yeshua1, Dec 23, 2020
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Refers to those those that would be saved by God, correct?
     
    #105 Yeshua1, Dec 23, 2020
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God did for them what they could not do while being lost sinners.
     
    #106 Yeshua1, Dec 23, 2020
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I just see the main theme of the NT being that the Messiah was born, died, and raised up against so that we can now be right with Holy God!
     
    #107 Yeshua1, Dec 23, 2020
  8. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Your comments evade what Im talking about. Im specifically stating what is stated in Rom 5:10, that people Christ died for, were reconciled to God by that death, even while they were enemies. Either you accept that or not sir.
     
    #108 Brightfame52, Dec 23, 2020
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    refers to His elect, correct?
     
    #109 Yeshua1, Dec 23, 2020
  10. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    He did something specific in Rom 5:10. What is it ?
     
    #110 Brightfame52, Dec 23, 2020
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  11. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, His Sheep. Didnt He die specifically for His Sheep according to Jn 10 ?
     
    #111 Brightfame52, Dec 23, 2020
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  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Did I say everyone was reconciled by means of Christ's death? You bet. :)
    Did I say everyone reconciled by means of Christ's death were enemies at the time of reconciliation? You bet

    Sir, you are ignoring truth and posting falsehood. You have not addressed by comments or the scripture I have cited.

    To be an "enemy" of God simply means to be alienated and hostile, which is the result of being fallen and unregenerate. Thus when the fallen set their mind on fleshly desires, they are hostile to God and His desires. But the fallen can set their minds on some spiritual things, such as the milk of the gospel. The claim the fallen are unable to set their minds on some spiritual things is not found in scripture, but the fallen setting their minds some of the time on spiritual things is found throughout scripture. Recall the many that seek the narrow path that leads to life. (Luke 13:24)
     
    #112 Van, Dec 23, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2020
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I know. But given the number of passages that offer much more, perhaps now would be the perfect time to reexamine what you see as the main theme of the New Testament.

    The "main theme" does not change from the OT to the NT. The NT is the good news that God's kingdom which the OT has testified has come near (and in a way that was unexpected). The "main theme" includes justification / righteousness but by no means should be reduced to simply being "right with God".

    The Bible refers to being made right with God in terms of a part of the Kingdom of God. We are not "made right" (or saved, or justified, or born again) simply for the sake of doing it. Salvation is God-centered, not man-centered. And the gospel is, per Scripture, the "gospel of the kingdom of God".
     
    #113 JonC, Dec 23, 2020
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  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, only for his own elect in Christ!
     
    #114 Yeshua1, Dec 23, 2020
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Justification in Romans was based upon individual salvation, not corporate Kingdom!
     
    #115 Yeshua1, Dec 23, 2020
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Not really. Paul considered it to be the "righteousness of God manifested apart from the Law", i.e., the New Covenant.

    God works with man in terms of covenantal relationships.

    But just like the Kingdom of God, and just like God reconciling man to Himself, and just like the New Covenant, there are always individual implications.

    That said, we cannot ignore Scripture just to develop a personal theology which meets our expectations insofar as the individual is concern. We have to accept Scripture as God's Word and as true even if it says things (like Jesus and Paul proclaiming the "gospel of the Kingdom") that we may not like.
     
    #116 JonC, Dec 23, 2020
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  17. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    van
    Yeah but thats error, because some people while being enemies /unbelievers are condemned Jn 3:18

    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    You cant be reconciled to God and under Gods condemnation at the same time. So those under condemnation, Christ could not have died for them.
     
    #117 Brightfame52, Dec 23, 2020
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  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Wright? I gave you lists of verses stating that Jesus proclaimed "the gospel of the Kingdom of God", that Philip preached "the gospel of the Kingdom of God", and that in Rome Paul proclaimed "the gospel of the Kingdom of God". I only brought up Scripture and gave you the verses (in the OT and the NT, in the teachings of Christ and Paul). I never mentioned Wright.

    But if N.T. Wright affirms those passages that state Jesus and the Apostles proclaimed the gospel of the Kingdom of God then more power to him. He is not accountable to me (I'm not Anglican nor am I a NPP advocate).


    Do you believe that Jesus taught in the synagogues proclaiming the good news of the Kingdom (Matthew 4:23)?

    Do you believe that Philip preached the Kingdom of God (Acts 8)?

    Do you believe that Paul was actually stoned by the Jews for proclaiming this gospel of the Kingdom of God (Acts 14)?

    Do you believe that Paul boldly proclaimed the Kingdom of God in the synagogues (Acts 19)?

    Do you believe that God performed miracles through Paul as testimony concerning the gospel of the Kingdom of God (Acts 19)?

    Do you believe that Paul’s ministry in Rome was preaching the kingdom of God (Acts 28)?
     
    #118 JonC, Dec 23, 2020
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  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Partly, yes. But corporately "in Christ". The people who are justified are the people of God (the Kingdom people). This justification is not based on the accomplishments of any individual but, as Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3, their "rebirth". That is the only way that one can see the Kingdom of God.

    Read John 3. Salvation itself is an entry into the Kingdom of God ("in Christ). Consider what @Iconoclast said about the Cross being a "door". Consider what Jesus said about He being the Way.

    You are getting snagged on a tree branch and not allowing yourself to see the forest because of that one tree. Justification IS important. It is vital. But the Doctrine of Justification is not the gospel (it is one very important and related doctrine).
     
    #119 JonC, Dec 23, 2020
  20. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    That's the main theme of the Reformation...and it's an incredibly myopic, hyper-Westernized, humanistic (classical humanism...which is a good thing basically) and short-sighted view.
    It's not the main theme of the N.T.
    The main theme of the N.T. is at least as much the Gospel of the Kingdom as anything else.

    John C. has an interesting point to make here with his O.P.
    Problem with John C. is that he tends to derive his thinking from the text in lieu of Systematic Theology. Hence, he is usually not taken seriously enough.
     
    #120 HeirofSalvation, Dec 23, 2020
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