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The Gospel of the Kingdom
- Thread starter JonC
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Sir, please address my comments. I answered with great clarity your question. Did I not say they were enemies when reconciled?
You, or more accurately the Calvinism you advocate, claims being "enemies" means unable to seek God or trust in Christ. Now that Sir is "adding."Van said:
To be an "enemy" of God simply means to be alienated and hostile, which is the result of being fallen and unregenerate. Thus when the fallen set their mind on fleshly desires, they are hostile to God and His desires. But the fallen can set their minds on some spiritual things, such as the milk of the gospel. The claim the fallen are unable to set their minds on some spiritual things is not found in scripture, but the fallen setting their minds some of the time on spiritual things is found throughout scripture. Recall the many that seek the narrow path that leads to life.
Sorry, I did not mean "ignoring" as if you are ignoring Scripture. Perhaps "emphasizing" or "overemphasizing at the expense of other doctrines" is more appropriate.
Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. (2 Co 5:18–19).
JonC seems to be echoing Wright here on the Kingdom, as that was how Wright was redefining Pauline Justification!
Refers to those those that would be saved by God, correct?
God did for them what they could not do while being lost sinners.
I just see the main theme of the NT being that the Messiah was born, died, and raised up against so that we can now be right with Holy God!
Brightfame52
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refers to His elect, correct?
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
He did something specific in Rom 5:10. What is it ?
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Yes, His Sheep. Didnt He die specifically for His Sheep according to Jn 10 ?
Did I say everyone was reconciled by means of Christ's death? You bet.
Did I say everyone reconciled by means of Christ's death were enemies at the time of reconciliation? You bet
Sir, you are ignoring truth and posting falsehood. You have not addressed by comments or the scripture I have cited.
To be an "enemy" of God simply means to be alienated and hostile, which is the result of being fallen and unregenerate. Thus when the fallen set their mind on fleshly desires, they are hostile to God and His desires. But the fallen can set their minds on some spiritual things, such as the milk of the gospel. The claim the fallen are unable to set their minds on some spiritual things is not found in scripture, but the fallen setting their minds some of the time on spiritual things is found throughout scripture. Recall the many that seek the narrow path that leads to life. (Luke 13:24)
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I know. But given the number of passages that offer much more, perhaps now would be the perfect time to reexamine what you see as the main theme of the New Testament.
The "main theme" does not change from the OT to the NT. The NT is the good news that God's kingdom which the OT has testified has come near (and in a way that was unexpected). The "main theme" includes justification / righteousness but by no means should be reduced to simply being "right with God".
The Bible refers to being made right with God in terms of a part of the Kingdom of God. We are not "made right" (or saved, or justified, or born again) simply for the sake of doing it. Salvation is God-centered, not man-centered. And the gospel is, per Scripture, the "gospel of the kingdom of God".
Yes, only for his own elect in Christ!
Justification in Romans was based upon individual salvation, not corporate Kingdom!
Not really. Paul considered it to be the "righteousness of God manifested apart from the Law", i.e., the New Covenant.
God works with man in terms of covenantal relationships.
But just like the Kingdom of God, and just like God reconciling man to Himself, and just like the New Covenant, there are always individual implications.
That said, we cannot ignore Scripture just to develop a personal theology which meets our expectations insofar as the individual is concern. We have to accept Scripture as God's Word and as true even if it says things (like Jesus and Paul proclaiming the "gospel of the Kingdom") that we may not like.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
van
Yeah but thats error, because some people while being enemies /unbelievers are condemned Jn 3:18
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
You cant be reconciled to God and under Gods condemnation at the same time. So those under condemnation, Christ could not have died for them.
Did I say everyone was reconciled by means of Christ's death? You bet.
Did I say everyone reconciled by means of Christ's death were enemies at the time of reconciliation? You bet
Yeah but thats error, because some people while being enemies /unbelievers are condemned Jn 3:18
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
You cant be reconciled to God and under Gods condemnation at the same time. So those under condemnation, Christ could not have died for them.
Wright? I gave you lists of verses stating that Jesus proclaimed "the gospel of the Kingdom of God", that Philip preached "the gospel of the Kingdom of God", and that in Rome Paul proclaimed "the gospel of the Kingdom of God". I only brought up Scripture and gave you the verses (in the OT and the NT, in the teachings of Christ and Paul). I never mentioned Wright.
But if N.T. Wright affirms those passages that state Jesus and the Apostles proclaimed the gospel of the Kingdom of God then more power to him. He is not accountable to me (I'm not Anglican nor am I a NPP advocate).
Do you believe that Jesus taught in the synagogues proclaiming the good news of the Kingdom (Matthew 4:23)?
Do you believe that Philip preached the Kingdom of God (Acts 8)?
Do you believe that Paul was actually stoned by the Jews for proclaiming this gospel of the Kingdom of God (Acts 14)?
Do you believe that Paul boldly proclaimed the Kingdom of God in the synagogues (Acts 19)?
Do you believe that God performed miracles through Paul as testimony concerning the gospel of the Kingdom of God (Acts 19)?
Do you believe that Paul’s ministry in Rome was preaching the kingdom of God (Acts 28)?
Partly, yes. But corporately "in Christ". The people who are justified are the people of God (the Kingdom people). This justification is not based on the accomplishments of any individual but, as Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3, their "rebirth". That is the only way that one can see the Kingdom of God.
Read John 3. Salvation itself is an entry into the Kingdom of God ("in Christ). Consider what @Iconoclast said about the Cross being a "door". Consider what Jesus said about He being the Way.
You are getting snagged on a tree branch and not allowing yourself to see the forest because of that one tree. Justification IS important. It is vital. But the Doctrine of Justification is not the gospel (it is one very important and related doctrine).
That's the main theme of the Reformation...and it's an incredibly myopic, hyper-Westernized, humanistic (classical humanism...which is a good thing basically) and short-sighted view.
It's not the main theme of the N.T.
The main theme of the N.T. is at least as much the Gospel of the Kingdom as anything else.
John C. has an interesting point to make here with his O.P.
Problem with John C. is that he tends to derive his thinking from the text in lieu of Systematic Theology. Hence, he is usually not taken seriously enough.
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