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Featured Do Calvinists Affirm Free Will then?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Feb 16, 2021.

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  1. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You did not answer my question... Instead, as usual, you post verses out of context.
     
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  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Explain please.
     
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  3. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    He speaks on emotion, not biblical principle.
     
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  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I have quoted from the Infallible Word of Almighty God. IF, what I am saying is not correct, or out of context, then please put them into their context. It seems very clear to me from the 4 passages, that there is a time in the life of all young children, when they are considered by God, to be in the state of "innocence". God only knows the time of this. you are free to argue against the Bible, but there is no other way to understand these verses. If there is, then lets hear it.
     
  5. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Deut. 1:39 it says they don't know the difference between good and evil. It does not say they are sinless.
    Is. 7 says nothing about being sinless. You should read it again.
    Jonah 4:11 I don't even know how it is relevant to the discussion.
    Romans 9:11 They weren't born yet, so again, irrelevant.
     
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Humans are not bound by an outside force. They are bound by their own sin. They are slaves to sin.

    John 8:34-36
    Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

    Romans 6:19-22
    I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.

    Paul goes on to answer your complaint.

    Romans 9:19-24
    You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

    sbw, God has answered your complaints. Either you accept what God tells you or you keep fighting against God.
     
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    If someone does not know the difference between good and evil, right and wrong. What does this make them. The text in Romans says that the babies in the womb were without sin. This is what the Bible actually says not me!
     
  8. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Let's look at the text:

    Romans 9:10-13

    And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

    The text says they had not done either good or bad. It does not say "they were sinless."

    Paul answers this in Romans 5:12-15.

    Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.

    The answer to your question is...it makes them sinners because Adam sinned and the corrupt nature of Adam is within all mankind.

    Like "HeirofSalvation" you are teaching Pelagian heresy which the church, both Roman Catholic and Protestant, has condemned.
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Trying to discuss anything with Calvinism advocates is like throwing a ball at a pitch-back.
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Same to ya, Mr. Pitchback.
     
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Sure it is. Not once does it acknowledge the false philosophy of free will existing...much less man having a free will.
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    This is a direct denial once again of the biblically revealed facts of the fall into sin and death.
    Failure here leads to a list of errors that cannot be recovered from.Rom3:23.
    You should pause and take time to understand the fall into sin and death
     
  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Here is the defective reasoning..
    Psalm 51:5 is part of the cure available.All sinned at one point in time.
    Not only are you wrong on this issue but you compound it by falsely declaring the bible supports your error.
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The desires of the lost sinner would be to avoid the narrow road at all costs!
     
  15. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I did.
     
  16. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    If I do not know that sex outside of marriage is wrong and I have sex outside of marriage, does that mean I did not sin? Your argument is absurd.
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We know that our salvation was granted to us by the Lord choosing to save us apart from anything that we could ever "contribute", but what is the reason non Cals see why God choose to save them?
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here yet again we have a Calvinist proclaiming the opposite of scripture because Jesus said "many" will seek to find the narrow road. (Luke 13:24)

    Calvinist redefine the meaning of words, which means Calvinists can affirm Free Will, and have it mean Free only to choose outside the will of God, thus consistent with the Bondage of the Will.

    However, people do seek God, as the people of Matthew 23:13 were seeking to enter His kingdom, and people do put their faith in Christ, as the people chosen for salvation in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 did.
     
    #58 Van, Feb 17, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Calvinists do not say that we cannot decide and choose to do right or wrong things, or that we cannot seek after a god of our own making, One that saves by good works, but that we cannot seek to come to the true God who saves by grace alone, as our very natures cannot grasp that truth, nor even desire to do such!
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    David said that he was conceived in sin, so think he is right!
     
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