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Are Human Beings Born Sinners?

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Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
as I have said before you have much to learn. You dismiss the Scriptures that are clear that children are NOT sinners at conception, or after birth at a young age. and you will keep on kicking aganist the Word of God, by producing your verse from Romans!
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I don't ignore them. They don't exist. That is not even close to what those Scriptures say. YOU need to explain Romans 3:23.

But if you actually READ the verses you claim say kids do not sin, you will see that is not what they say in any way.
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
you do NOT understand because of you theology!
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My "theology" comes straight from reading God's word, just like yours.
SavedByGrace said:
Only AFTER a person SINS, they are SINNERS.
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Respectfully, your conclusion differs from mine, even though all I do is take it straight off the pages;
Like you do.
SavedByGrace said:
The verse in Isaiah and Romans show that young children of a certain age, are NOT guilty. this is the Bible.
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I disagree, SBG.
That is what I call the unbiblical teaching of "the age of accountability",
which I see nowhere in God's word.
SavedByGrace said:
I am not going to argue any more on this, because you like Reformed1689, are bound by your theology!
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I'm bound by what I see in His word, not by any "systematic theologies" SBG.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
@SavedByGrace for the record, you keep saying that @Dave G and myself are blinded by our theology on this issue. I am assuming that you mean Reformed Theology. Do you realize that a great number of Reformed believe David's son went to Heaven? So if you are going to attack us on this issue it cannot be because of our theology of soteriology.
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
what does I SHALL GO TO HIM mean? after the child was dead??? Stop trying to force the Bible to fit your theology!
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You are completely within your right to reject any part of God's word that you wish, SBG.
I'll believe what's written.

In other words, I agree with God when He tells me that "there is none righteous, no not one".
 
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SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
@SavedByGrace for the record, you keep saying that @Dave G and myself are blinded by our theology on this issue. I am assuming that you mean Reformed Theology. Do you realize that a great number of Reformed believe David's son went to Heaven? So if you are going to attack us on this issue it cannot be because of our theology of soteriology.
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My argument is on what basis was David's son saved if as you keep on presenting Romans 3.23 that he was a lost sinner who couldn't have repented and believed
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
My argument is on what basis was David's son saved if as you keep on presenting Romans 3.23 that he was a lost sinner who couldn't have repented and believed
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It doesn't say that his son was saved.
It simply says that he would go to him, but that his son would not return to David.

If I may ask,
Why is it that you're looking beyond that?
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
I reject your twisting of the Bible not God's Word
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Many people disagree with me, SBG.
But we all stand before the Lord, and He will judge between you and me and everyone else.

That said,
You are perfectly within your right to express your opinion, and I bear you no ill will despite our disagreements.:)
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
what does I SHALL GO TO HIM mean?
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It could mean several things actually. It could mean Heaven. It could mean death. It could mean burial. But in no way can you definitively say it means Heaven because that is not what the text says. It is a one-off comment. You can't build a doctrine off of that.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
It could mean several things actually. It could mean Heaven. It could mean death. It could mean burial. But in no way can you definitively say it means Heaven because that is not what the text says. It is a one-off comment. You can't build a doctrine off of that.
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you still don't get it? GO TO HIM, can ONLY mean that David will meet with him some day. No one "meets" anyone in the grave, or in "death", unless you follow the teachings of some strange cults! The passage is very simple. David's son died, David celebrates this event with a feast, when questioned about this, David says, that his son cannot return to him after death, but he WILL be going to be with him, after his death! This can ONLY mean heaven. If you still cannot grasp this, I suggest to see the Holy Spirit's help in understanding.

My question is, as there are no sinners in heaven, and David's son was far too young to "repent and believe", the only other option is, as shown in the verses in the OP, that there is a time in infants, of "innocence", where they have not actually committed any sins!
 
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