SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
then respond to #66!
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What happens to babies when they die?
- Thread starter SavedByGrace
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then respond to #66!
Die to the fact that God does for the infants what they cannot do for themselves, but adults can?
Did!
Lo, in iniquity I have been brought forth, And in sin doth my mother conceive me. Ps 51:5
Is that the reason Jesus said, "You must be born again"?
Would that be regardless of age or even if you actually die? If you are brought forth of flesh, you must be born (γεννηθῆναι) again to enter the kingdom of God?
John 3:6 τὸ γεγεννημένον ἐκ τῆς σαρκὸς σάρξ ἐστιν καὶ τὸ γεγεννημένον ἐκ τοῦ πνεύματος πνεῦμά ἐστιν
Is that the reason Jesus said, "You must be born again"?
Would that be regardless of age or even if you actually die? If you are brought forth of flesh, you must be born (γεννηθῆναι) again to enter the kingdom of God?
John 3:6 τὸ γεγεννημένον ἐκ τῆς σαρκὸς σάρξ ἐστιν καὶ τὸ γεγεννημένον ἐκ τοῦ πνεύματος πνεῦμά ἐστιν
You have a ton of why questions directed towards God that come off as accusation against God.
First, I believe Iconoclast added "elect" babies to the conversation as though there is evidence of non-elect babies. The Bible provides no information to us regarding the redemption of children. Everything we attempt will be speculative based of a few isolated sentences in the Bible. We have to entrust all redemption to God and trust His perfect will.
If you demand that all humans must repent, believe and be baptized, you condemn all infants since no infant can fulfill all three requirements of your law.
However, God tells us that a person is saved by His choice to extend grace to that person.
Does God extend grace to the unborn, infants and those who are mentally incapable of expressing any faith?
I hope so. I pray that He does. I take personal comfort in David's expression regarding the death of his child. But, ultimately, God has made no promise. I fall at his mercy and believe I will go to my beloved. If God did not extend grace, He will reveal His perfect will when I join the multitude of saints in glory.
The idea that my beloved were perfect at birth and thus God must admit them to heaven is not biblically supported. The verses you try to twist do not give me assurance. God has remained silent and I must accept that and live by faith alone.
Not if you understand salvation as revealed in scripture.
Austin....do you believe infants who are elected will not be saved?
That statement is flawless if you understand it biblically.
I do not agree. God alone determines the multitude of sinners He has purposed to save.His perfect wisdom determines this.Gen 18:25
What do you mean? Latter choice? What is that.
R1689
Do you think infants,small children,are excluded from the Covenant of Redemption? Jn6:37-44....Hebrews2:9-16 jn3:5-11
I understand your statement and I know why you make it. Your implication is, however, that not all infants are chosen by God to receive His grace.
The question here is whether all receive God's gracious choice, none receive God's gracious choice or some receive God's gracious choice. My response is that God has not given us any definitive word regarding His will in redeeming the unborn, infants and persons with mental incapacity to express faith. We simply cannot know what God has not told us.
Does God elect according to his will. Certainly the Bible tells us yes. God does not tell us who those persons are and we cannot discern faith in the unborn, infants or persons with mental incapacity to express faith. We must rest in our belief that God is always good and His choice in redemption is always good and perfect. We cannot declare anything more definitive from scripture.
Hello Austin
The way the confession of faith words it is flawless.
It leaves it totally up to God as that is the only answer that is scripturally consistent.
God is a Covenant making and Covenant keeping God.
The amount of those elected,as well as the age of those elected is determined by God alone. There is no need to speculate.
No one can dictate to God.
Those parents having experienced an infant dying have a living hope in God's mercy.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Be honest.
He answered that in stating that he has no scripture that clearly states the answer, so he is trusting God.
Do you have a verse that any ELECT die before hearing the word and repenting?
Do you have a verse that states that any infant IS ELECT?
Without scripture, it is all speculation.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I have repeatedly said I do not have a strict position on it. The Bible does not say explicitly that they are included.
Hello Pollard
I am honest.
I read his post and asked a question. I will ask you in like manner .
Do you believe anyone is saved who is not elected?
I will answer more fully in about 5 hours.
Lol...Hello r1689
You know by now I can be somewhat annoying in my posting.
You correctly say this one silver bullet verse mentioning infants who die in infancy is not found...I agree.There would not be discussion if such a verse was sitting there.
The question is answered by examining the Covenant of Redemption or you run the risk of excluding all such little ones.
I will expand this later on...still have 350 miles to go
Jesus Saves!
Active Member
Not sure if these verses have been mentioned yet. But these came to mind as I was sorting thru the posts.
Romans 7:7-9 KJVS
[7] What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. [8] But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. [9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Though they are born sinners, has the law convicted their hearts yet? I remember as a ten year old boy when the law stepped in and opened my eyes to who I was in the eyes of God. Through the preached gospel by the power of then Holt Ghost I got in trouble. And remained in trouble until I was born again.
Romans 7:7-9 KJVS
[7] What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. [8] But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. [9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Though they are born sinners, has the law convicted their hearts yet? I remember as a ten year old boy when the law stepped in and opened my eyes to who I was in the eyes of God. Through the preached gospel by the power of then Holt Ghost I got in trouble. And remained in trouble until I was born again.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
No.
(However that is my BELIEF and not what I can irrefutably prove from Scripture).
We are discussing two different things.
You are simply talking about election, which atpollard, Reformed, and I believe. All God's elect are saved. Honestly, that's a no-brainer and it is the only point you are making.
The other issue, which is the actual point of this thread, is...are any unborn, infants or mentally impaired person's elect? Are only some elect, none elect or are all elect? I have answered the second question with the honest statement that God doesn't tell us who the elect are and since we cannot discern any faith in that group of person's, we cannot even guess. Instead, we fall at the mercy of God and declare that whatever God chooses is good.
I hope this clarifies things for you and you are able to see that you have missed the point of this conversation and instead honed in on a truth that none of us are debating.
Peace
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