Pre-Mil Fallacy

[Jerome]

Charles Spurgeon, "The Necessity of Increased Faith":

"I find that many....it is not until after years that they believe the entire gospel. Some of you, my hearers, and a great many that are not my hearers, are miserable little cramped souls....I do not think I differ from any of my Hyper-Calvinistic brethren in what I do believe; but I differ from them in what they do not believe....I could not, for a long time, see anything like the Millennium in the Scriptures; I could not much rejoice in the Second Coming of Christ, though I did believe it; but gradually my faith began to open to that subject, and I find it now a part of my food and drink, to be looking for, as well as hastening to, the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

I steer clear of any Premillennial group

From confession of faith of Charles Spurgeon and other ministers, circa 1890:

"Our hope is the Personal Pre-millennial Return of the Lord Jesus in glory."

 

[1689Dave]

And the millennial kingdom doesn't contradict that. You just proved my point.

Jesus taught the Spiritual Kingdom only. You reject his Kingdom when you side with the Pharisee's Pre-Millennial Kingdom

 

[1689Dave]

From confession of faith of Charles Spurgeon and other ministers, circa 1890:

"Our hope is the Personal Pre-millennial Return of the Lord Jesus in glory."

He was wrong. Study Jesus first, then you'll see Spurgeon's errors.

 

[Reformed1689]

Jesus taught the Spiritual Kingdom only. You reject his Kingdom when you side with the Pharisee's Pre-Millennial Kingdom

That's not true. I simply believe that when Scripture says that Jesus will physically reign on this earth for 1,000 years (John's teaching not the pharisees) that it means just that.

 

[1689Dave]

That's not true. I simply believe that when Scripture says that Jesus will physically reign on this earth for 1,000 years (John's teaching not the pharisees) that it means just that.

You are making the same mistake the Pharisees make, even today. Since the Kingdom is Spiritual, the Kingdom Prophecies are not literal. They are symbols of spiritual realities. The 1000 years in Revelation 20 = Satan's binding. When they end, Satan is loosed to attack the kingdom.

 

[Reformed1689]

You are making the same mistake the Pharisees make, even today. Since the Kingdom is Spiritual, the Kingdom Prophecies are not literal. They are symbols of spiritual realities. The 1000 years in Revelation 20 = Satan's binding. When they end, Satan is loosed to attack the kingdom.

And when will Satan be bound? What else will be happening during that time Dave? And again, the Bible teaches a physical 1,000 year reign. You have to show from Scripture why we should not believe that. I'm not going to just take your word for it.

 

[1689Dave]

And when will Satan be bound? What else will be happening during that time Dave? And again, the Bible teaches a physical 1,000 year reign. You have to show from Scripture why we should not believe that. I'm not going to just take your word for it.

“But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.” Luke 11:20 (KJV 1900)

Satan is bound from deceiving the Gentiles by the gospel. But he still carries out God's will as the destroyer.

 

[Dave G]

I may not be able to convince you of the symbolic nature and parallelism of the Revelation, but I can sure rebut every argument for Premillennialism by showing how antithetical to the Gospel is the hope of an earthly kingdom.

It's not the hope of an earthly kingdom.
It's the hope of an eternal kingdom preceded by a 1,000 year reign after the Tribulation where the Lord Jesus puts all His enemies under His feet by ruling the nations with a rod of iron, all His saints ruling from Jerusalem with Him, and the Lord Jesus delivering up all of that to His Father.

Respectfully,
It is not antithetical to the Gospel in any way.

 

[Reformed1689]

“But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.” Luke 11:20 (KJV 1900)

Satan is bound from deceiving the Gentiles by the gospel. But he still carries out God's will as the destroyer.

It doesn't say that he continues to carry out God's will as the destroyer during the 1,000 years Dave. It says he is thrown away and locked into an abyss.

 

[Reformed1689]

It's not the hope of an earthly kingdom.
It's the hope of an eternal kingdom preceded by a 1,000 year reign after the Tribulation where the Lord Jesus puts all His enemies under His feet by ruling the nations with a rod of iron, all His saints ruling from Jerusalem with Him, and the Lord Jesus delivering up all of that to His Father.

Respectfully,
It is not antithetical to the Gospel in any way.

Agree. @Aaron has repeatedly said that a literal 1,000 year reign is somehow against the Gospel but has shown no Scriptural support for such a position.

 

[1689Dave]

It's not the hope of an earthly kingdom.
It's the hope of an eternal kingdom preceded by a 1,000 year reign after the Tribulation where the Lord Jesus puts all His enemies under His feet by ruling the nations with a rod of iron, all His saints ruling from Jerusalem with Him, and the Lord Jesus delivering up all of that to His Father.

Respectfully,
It is not antithetical to the Gospel in any way.

The great tribulation happened in AD70. Christians have great tribulation throughout the entire Christian era.

 

[Reformed1689]

The great tribulation happened in AD70. Christians have great tribulation throughout the entire Christian era.

And why would John be writing about something that already happened? That doesn't fit.

 

[1689Dave]

It doesn't say that he continues to carry out God's will as the destroyer during the 1,000 years Dave. It says he is thrown away and locked into an abyss.

Only from deceiving the nations. What happens if you add your words to Revelation? Stick with scripture.

 

[Reformed1689]

Only from deceiving the nations. What happens if you add your words to Revelation? Stick with scripture.

I'm not the one adding words Dave. You are the one saying he continues during the 1,000 years as the destroyer, not me. I pointed out that he is locked away in an abyss. You are the one adding the words.

 

[1689Dave]

I'm not the one adding words Dave. You are the one saying he continues during the 1,000 years as the destroyer, not me. I pointed out that he is locked away in an abyss. You are the one adding the words.

Revelation says he is bound from deceiving the nations. Nothing more. Stick to the word.

 

[1689Dave]

And why would John be writing about something that already happened? That doesn't fit.

He is not writing about that past event. Christians suffer great tribulation throughout the entire era.

 

[Dave G]

You are making the same mistake the Pharisees make, even today. Since the Kingdom is Spiritual, the Kingdom Prophecies are not literal

The kingdom is both spiritual and physical.

The spiritual side of it is all Christ's sheep united by the Spirit.
The physical side will be during the 1,000 year reign, followed by new Heavens and a new earth, my friend.
As God's children, we will all have new bodies.

After the Lord subdues His enemies, He will then deliver it all up to His Father.
Then the slate is wiped after the Judgment and the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven.

It will be a glorious sight, and I look forward to it.

 

[1689Dave]

The kingdom is both spiritual and physical.

The spiritual side of it is all Christ's sheep united by the Spirit.
The physical side will be during the 1,000 year reign, followed by new Heavens and a new earth, my friend.

After the Lord subdues His enemies, He will then deliver it all up to His Father.
Then the slate is wiped after the Judgment and the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven.

It will be a glorious sight, and I look forward to it.

Jesus says you are wrong. Only the born-again can see the kingdom. Why? Because it is Spiritual.

 

[Dave G]

The great tribulation happened in AD70.

Worse than the plagues of Egypt?
I don't recall seeing anything in the history books even approaching a cataclysm of that magnitude ever happening since Christ ascended to heaven.

If you find it, please let me know where to look.

 

[Dave G]

Jesus says you are wrong. Only the born-again can see the kingdom. Why? Because it is Spiritual.

I agree.
Only the born again will see the new Heavens and the new earth.