Yes, and that birthing means that we are seen as being adopted by God now!
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Have Believers Already Been Adopted as Children of God?
- Thread starter Scripture More Accurately
- Start date
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
No, the Scripture does not teach that.
The letter to the Romans is written to those who are 'beloved of God, called to be saints' (1:7). At the end of the letter they are promised that God will crush Satan under their feet. I think it is impossible that he would use those terms about people who were not justified. Then in Romans 8:14-17, it is written:
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are [present tense; Gk. eisin] sons of God. For you [the Roman Christians to whom he is writing] did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received [aorist, past tense] the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out "Abba, Father.".............' Would the Spirit of adoption cause us to cry out a lie to God?
'..........The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirits that we are [present tense again] children of God, and if children, then heirs - heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ......'
Much the same is taught in Galatians 4:4-7, including the use of the present tense. Christians are, right now, sons of God, through adoption.
So how do we reconcile these texts with Romans 8:23? The Holy Spirit is that author of all these verses and so it goes without saying that there can be no contradiction.
When we are first saved and adopted into God's family, our worldly circumstances do not change Indeed, we may end up like the heroes of faith in Hebrews 11:37. The fact that we are children of the King of kings is not apparent to the world. That is why John writes, 'Beloved, now [right now!] we are children of God, and it has not yet been revealed [to the world] what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is' (1 John 3:1-2). The famous Cornish evangelist, Billy Bray was only a poor tin miner, but he used to say, "I'm a King's son, I am! And I'm on my way to claim my inheritance. And I shouts, 'Glory!' No one will stop me from shouting, 'Glory!' If they put me in a barrel I'll shout, 'Glory' through the bung hole!"
But when the Lord Jesus returns (which is what Romans 8:23 is talking about), and we rise to claim our inheritance, then it will be clear to all who are the adopted sons of God; and that is one reason why the members of the 1st Century churches were eagerly looking forward to that Day (1 Corinthians 1:7; Philippians 3:20-21; 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; 2 Timothy 4:8;Titus 2:13; Hebrews 9:28).
So Romans 8:14-17 is talking of our actual adoption in time. 8:23 is speaking of its proclamation to the world. Julius Caesar adopted his great nephew Octavian (later the Emperor Augustus) as his son and heir, but the fact was not generally known until Caesar's will was read after his assassination. So it is with Christians. We are adopted when we believe as sons of God and co-heirs with Christ. God knows it, and we should know it. But when Christ returns, everyone will know it.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
The OP question is NOT "are we spiritual children of God now?"
We all would answer "yes" to that.
The OP question is NOT about regeneration, it's about adoption.
Two vastly different concepts.
We all would answer "yes" to that.
The OP question is NOT about regeneration, it's about adoption.
Two vastly different concepts.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
That's a great sermon. I mean it. But it completely blew by the doctrine.
No one denies that we are justified now.
No one denies that we have been born of God already.
The issue is adoption which is the transformation of the body.
You are confounding the transformation (adoption) of the body with the manifestation of the body.
And there's nothing to "reconcile". All the verses on adoption place it in the future just like Romans 8:23.
Doesn't your Bible say that the Lord Jesus is the only begotten Son of God?
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Yes, it does. So let's play along. Your point?
Again, you need to read Romans 8:14-17 once more. But your position makes no sense.
It is the Spirit of adoption that that causes us to cry out, "Abba, Father!" Yet according to you, at that point we have been born of God, but not adopted. So two questions:
1. Who adopts his own son?
And what would be the point?2. Wouldn't it be the Spirit of begetting that causes us to cry out "Abba, Father!" since according to you, we haven't been adopted but we have been born?
But we're not going to agree, and I have given up long arguments on this board, so I'm finished here. People can make up their minds on what's been written already.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Again, you need to read Romans 8:14-17 once more. But your position makes no sense.
It is the Spirit of adoption that that causes us to cry out, "Abba, Father!" Yet according to you, at that point we have been born of God, but not adopted. So two questions:
1. Who adopts his own son?
2. Wouldn't it be the Spirit of begetting that causes us to cry out "Abba, Father!" since according to you, we haven't been adopted but we have been born?
But we're not going to agree, and I have given up long arguments on this board, so I'm finished here. People can make up their minds on what's been written already.
Brother,
1) You are confounding having the Spirit of adoption and adoption.
We have the Spirit of adoption now but not the adoption yet.
The Spirit of adoption is merely the earnest (down-payment) until the redemption of the purchased possession (the body) at the resurrection.
2) You are confounding the spirit and the body. The spirit is born of God but not the body. God adopts the body, which unlike our spirit, is not born of God yet. So he is not adopting something that's been born of him.
Those distinctions are crucial. Spirit and body must be divided:
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow,
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
This is nonsense. Your quoted verses have nothing to do with adoption and there is no dichotomy between body and spirit in adoption as you are claiming.
Ephesians 1:3-6,11-14 confirms our adoption was settled before the foundation of the world and our homecoming is predestined.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
It's nonsense? Paul applied the adoption as a future event relative to the body, not a present state relative to the spirit.
Here are the verses, once again:
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
We are not waiting to become spiritual sons of God, we are already that, as we became spiritual sons of God the day we believed and got born again: Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
So clearly, by comparing the above verses, regeneration is a present state of our spirit whereas adoption is a future state of our body.
I'm pretty sure you don't have your new glorified body yet.
The dichotomy is clear if we obey the commandments in:
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow,
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
As for Ephesians 1, predestination is not what is said to have occurred before the foundation of the world - that's election.
Now we (that I say not "you") are not only confounding regeneration of the spirit with adoption of the body, we are confounding election with predestination.
Also, there is not a single verse of scriptures which clearly states when predestination occurs.
37818
Well-Known Member
The spiritual regeneration must be in place prior to the adoption, 1 John 3:2, Romans 8:23.
Adaption is the spiritual state already in as saved of, and children of God!
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry brother, but you often simply ignore people's points and restate your belief without even trying to back it up with scriptures. There is no use engaging you.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Well of course. No one denies that.
We have already received the Spirit of adoption, as we now can call God as Abba!
Do you think it would be fair to say that it is the regenerative power of the Spirit of adoption, that incubates one, unto sonship (adoption) which is the redemption of the body of us, at the appearing of the Lord?
Similar to, we being conceived in our mother and about nine months later being brought forth as flesh and blood sons?
Would that be a good analogy?
and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken (vi Fut Act 3 Sg) also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you. Rom 8:11
37818
Well-Known Member
It is the same Spirit, Romans 8:16, who is the Spirit of adoption, Romans 8:15. I would not use that anology, as nine months as the second appearing?
I only meant in the concept of conception and birth not time.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
I don't think that you have really thought about what you are saying here.
So we are natural born children of God - like Jesus Christ - but not yet "adopted" children of God through Christ.
It that really your belief from scripture?
We are reborn from "spiritually dead" to "spiritually alive", and since God is the God of the LIVING, we are then made Children of God through Jesus Christ. So the question is: Are we Children of God? We KNOW that we were not BORN as such (Ephesians 2:1-4), so if we are Children of God, then we must have been adopted at some point.
Romans 8:16-17 [NASB] 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with [Him] so that we may also be glorified with [Him.]