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General Redemption.

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utilyan

utilyan

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1689Dave said:
Why would the jailor ask Paul for directions if he didn't believe (have salvation according to Jesus)? BTW, Universal atonement doesn't save anyone.
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Just the opposite. If he knew he was already saved why bother.

27And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.

Nothing about that verse says "Oh lookie i'm saved" He was going to kill himself right THERE .

"You cannot discern spiritual truth unless you first have the Holy Spirit"

You can't even get this story straight. Look at this verse in front of your face. Does the holy spirit produce morons? Tell us about how "TRUE" you got it.


Dave is there any possibility at all, that you are flat out wrong!?

Are you capable of any error?


A person's FIRST inclination on being saved by Jesus Christ is to commit suicide!?!?!?!?!? Your wrong bro.
 
37818

37818

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1689Dave said:
This is true but salvation is free from ANY human reaction. You react only after being saved. Just as the jailor did.
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A false narrative. Faith always precedes salvation. You have no scripture to support your narrative.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

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37818 said:
The fruit of the Holy Spirit comes after salvation.
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Before. You cannot discern the true Christ until then.
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

“For what man knoweth the things of a man,

save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.” 1 Corinthians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900)

“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Corinthians 4:3–4 (KJV 1900)
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

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37818 said:
A false narrative. Faith always precedes salvation. You have no scripture to support your narrative.
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Salvation causes faith. The problem is when born again a person experiences Christ and that causes them to believe. If Christianity is only a religion, you will not believe based on experience. It's all hope and guesswork.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
A sure sign of failure to defend one's position....Insults....
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Where I have given an explanation you will not hear it. And your explanations ignore the plain reading of a text.

Multiple posts.

This thread is on general redemption.
Prove from the Bible it to be false.

Particular redemption is part of general redemption in my long held view.


The notion of salvation before faith has no Biblical ground.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Before. You cannot discern the true Christ until then.
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

“For what man knoweth the things of a man,

save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.” 1 Corinthians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900)

“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Corinthians 4:3–4 (KJV 1900)
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The gospel has to be understood to be believed. Once it is believed one is saved. One has to hear and understand the gospel to be saved. No one is saved without the gospel.
 
A

AustinC

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37818 said:
The gospel has to be understood to be believed. Once it is believed one is saved. One has to hear and understand the gospel to be saved. No one is saved without the gospel.
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No one is saved without God graciously making one alive with Christ. (Ephesians 2:4-9)
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Without the general redemption being true no one can know if one is one of the ones in the particular redemption. Believing one is part of the particular redemption would not make it so.
 
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37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Salvation causes faith. The problem is when born again a person experiences Christ and that causes them to believe. If Christianity is only a religion, you will not believe based on experience. It's all hope and guesswork.
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How can one be saved without the gospel?
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Not without the gospel being heard.
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Ephesians 2:4-9

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

If God's word won't change your mind, I certainly won't.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Ephesians 2:4-9

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

If God's word won't change your mind, I certainly won't.
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What am I supposed to change my mind about? God saves those who believe the gospel.
 
utilyan

utilyan

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Sounds great when you omit this portion of those verses.

Ephesians 2

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.


Ephesians 3

6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

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37818 said:
How can one be saved without the gospel?
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They must be saved before they can believe the gospel. But the gospel when heard saves them in time by focusing them on Christ and his death, burial, and resurrection. Cornelius was obviously saved having the fruit of the Holy Spirit long before he heard Peter preach. Peter even said “....... Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.” Acts 10:34–35 (KJV 1900)

Only the born again can do this.
 
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