The Equality of Jesus to The Father

[Aaron]

Paul says in 1 Timothy 3:16, "And without controversy great is the MYSTERY of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory"

Not only is the God of the Bible a Mystery, in every sense of the word. But, so is the Lord Jesus Christ, Eternally YHWH, but for our sakes took upon Himself the very nature of humans, sin excepted. Thereafter the God-Man, in One Person, Jesus Chirst. Some things that Jesus said and did, are true to His Human Nature, like He "grew in wisdom". He was tired, and hungry and had to eat food. Said that He did not "know" the time of His Second Coming. Yet, on the other hand, as Almighty God, He forgave sins, accepted Worship, claimed equality with the Father, walked on water, raised the dead, healed the sick. knew what was in man. How exactly did His Two Natures "Communicate", is a great Mystery indeed. How could Almighty God enter the womb of a woman, and be born as a human child? It would drive us mad to try to work this out, but to reject any of this, endangers our souls!

I don't think MB's argument was about power or nature. I could be wrong; I'll find out when I read further. But I think the argument is about rank. And there is rank in the Godhead.

 

[Aaron]

Less than God NO! subordinate in His Person as the God-Man. Yes

Subordinate as a son is to a Father . . . until the time appointed. All power and authority was given to the Son as a result of His work of Redemption. And so one can rightly say that Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father as equal in authority with a name above every name, but as the begotten Son, the Father is greater. One is the begetter, and one is begotten, and this has nothing to do with the Incarnation. Neither does it mean that the Son had a beginning. Neither does it mean of less in power or nature. But it does have to do with relationship in the Godhead.

 

[Aaron]

Christ said He and the Father are one.
MB

When a man and woman become "one flesh," does that mean the same person?

 

[Aaron]

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is YHWH?

Of course. Jesus's Hebrew name was Joshua, meaning "Yahweh saves."

But LORD, is a name for God, like Elohim, not the name of one Person. Elohim is used primarily in the Scriptures to denote God's covenant nature, being the plural of elowahh, the root of which is ALH, meaning "to swear,"

LORD is primarily used for God as a lawgiver. We see Elohim in Genesis one, when man is created in His image, a plurality of persons that are one flesh, and that stand in covenant. And we see the LORD God in Genesis 2 when man and woman are placed in the Garden with a "Thou shalt not ... " They are given a law.

But it sounds like you think YHWH is in reference to one Person, and not the one God.

Is your question, do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Father? And that the Spirit is the Father? Or vice versa?

As written, it sounds like you're asking, Is Jesus 100% the Trinity? How would you answer that?

 

[MB]

When a man and woman become "one flesh," does that mean the same person?

I believe that scripture tells us that when man and woman come together they become one flesh. Yet each have there own spirit. Because when one dies the living can marry again and be one flesh again with another..
The Bible says;
Mat_19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
But it also says;
.
1Co_6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
Think about being one flesh with a harlot. Seem we are one flesh with anyone we have sex relations with.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

Subordinate as a son is to a Father . . . until the time appointed. All power and authority was given to the Son as a result of His work of Redemption. And so one can rightly say that Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father as equal in authority with a name above every name, but as the begotten Son, the Father is greater. One is the begetter, and one is begotten, and this has nothing to do with the Incarnation. Neither does it mean that the Son had a beginning. Neither does it mean of less in power or nature. But it does have to do with relationship in the Godhead.

Only begotten may not be a valid expression though, as the 3 persons of God are all equally eternal and God!

 

[Yeshua1]

Of course. Jesus's Hebrew name was Joshua, meaning "Yahweh saves."

But LORD, is a name for God, like Elohim, not the name of one Person. Elohim is used primarily in the Scriptures to denote God's covenant nature, being the plural of elowahh, the root of which is ALH, meaning "to swear,"

LORD is primarily used for God as a lawgiver. We see Elohim in Genesis one, when man is created in His image, a plurality of persons that are one flesh, and that stand in covenant. And we see the LORD God in Genesis 2 when man and woman are placed in the Garden with a "Thou shalt not ... " They are given a law.

But it sounds like you think YHWH is in reference to one Person, and not the one God.

Is your question, do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Father? And that the Spirit is the Father? Or vice versa?

As written, it sounds like you're asking, Is Jesus 100% the Trinity? How would you answer that?

All 3 are equally Yahweh, and yet just One Yahweh!

 

[Aaron]

Only begotten may not be a valid expression though, as the 3 persons of God are all equally eternal and God!

"Only begotten" has nothing to do with the Incarnation!

The Son proceeds from the Father eternally!

 

[Aaron]

All 3 are equally Yahweh, and yet just One Yahweh!

Answer the question that is being posed!

Is Jesus Christ 100% the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?!

 

[Aaron]

I believe that scripture tells us that when man and woman come together they become one flesh. Yet each have there own spirit. Because when one dies the living can marry again and be one flesh again with another..
The Bible says;
Mat_19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
But it also says;
.
1Co_6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
Think about being one flesh with a harlot. Seem we are one flesh with anyone we have sex relations with.
MB

So being one doesn't mean not being separate and distinct person's.

So when the Son said He and the Father are one, He wasn't saying He was the Father and the Father was Him.

 

[37818]

"Only begotten" has nothing to do with the Incarnation!

The Son proceeds from the Father eternally!

No. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the LORD [Yahweh] God. The Son proceeding from the Father is the incarnation, John 17:3, Luke 1:35.

 

[MB]

So being one doesn't mean not being separate and distinct person's.

So when the Son said He and the Father are one, He wasn't saying He was the Father and the Father was Him.

Yes They are one. You are comparing God to man and there is no comparison. I can only go by scripture there isn't anything else.but the opinions of men.
MB

 

[Aaron]

Yes They are one. You are comparing God to man and there is no comparison. I can only go by scripture there isn't anything else.but the opinions of men.
MB

It's funny that we both say we're only going by Scripture. I get to appeal to mystery too: begotten, yet no beginning.

 

[Aaron]

No. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the LORD [Yahweh] God.

Agreed.

The Son proceeding from the Father is the incarnation, John 17:3, Luke 1:35.

I disagree. Yes, he was sent, but that's not what I meant by proceeding. Just to be clear about what you believe, He was never not the Son, Correct?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Of course. Jesus's Hebrew name was Joshua, meaning "Yahweh saves."

But LORD, is a name for God, like Elohim, not the name of one Person. Elohim is used primarily in the Scriptures to denote God's covenant nature, being the plural of elowahh, the root of which is ALH, meaning "to swear,"

LORD is primarily used for God as a lawgiver. We see Elohim in Genesis one, when man is created in His image, a plurality of persons that are one flesh, and that stand in covenant. And we see the LORD God in Genesis 2 when man and woman are placed in the Garden with a "Thou shalt not ... " They are given a law.

But it sounds like you think YHWH is in reference to one Person, and not the one God.

Is your question, do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Father? And that the Spirit is the Father? Or vice versa?

As written, it sounds like you're asking, Is Jesus 100% the Trinity? How would you answer that?

If as you say that Jesus Christ is not YHWH, then He cannot be Almighty God, and therefore a created being!

You should read Exodus 3 again, and see the Names that are used for "The Angel of YHWH", Who appeared to Moses. He is called God, YHWH, and even "I AM WHO I AM"! All this is not here used for God the Father, but Jesus Christ!

 

[Yeshua1]

Answer the question that is being posed!

Is Jesus Christ 100% the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?!

No, as that would be Oneness heresy!

 

[Yeshua1]

If as you say that Jesus Christ is not YHWH, then He cannot be Almighty God, and therefore a created being!

You should read Exodus 3 again, and see the Names that are used for "The Angel of YHWH", Who appeared to Moses. He is called God, YHWH, and even "I AM WHO I AM"! All this is not here used for God the Father, but Jesus Christ!

All 3 Persons are Yahweh!

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes They are one. You are comparing God to man and there is no comparison. I can only go by scripture there isn't anything else.but the opinions of men.
MB

Jesus was and is eternally God Himself. correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe that scripture tells us that when man and woman come together they become one flesh. Yet each have there own spirit. Because when one dies the living can marry again and be one flesh again with another..
The Bible says;
Mat_19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
But it also says;
.
1Co_6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
Think about being one flesh with a harlot. Seem we are one flesh with anyone we have sex relations with.
MB

Jesus and the father are not same person, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

"Only begotten" has nothing to do with the Incarnation!

The Son proceeds from the Father eternally!

Think all 3 Persons are eternally God and self existing!