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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by AustinC, May 9, 2021.

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  1. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Awww.
     
    #41 George Antonios, May 27, 2021
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    What and which page are you contending about?
     
    #42 37818, May 27, 2021
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  3. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    daveg

    Exactly !
     
    #43 Brightfame52, May 27, 2021
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  4. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    37818

    It doesnt if you dont mean by it that faith in man is a condition man meets to get saved.

    But if you mean by it [through Faith] that its a Gift of God, its given by His Grace working it in us, and its not of ourselves naturally, then and only then it doesnt merit salvation and become a work of ours.
     
    #44 Brightfame52, May 27, 2021
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  5. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    The closing action of Salvation is a persons believing or faith, however this doesnt originate from the one believing, but is the application of Grace by the Spirit upon the heart of all for whom God the Father chose in Christ before the foundation, and whom Christ layed down His life for, His Sheep !
     
    #45 Brightfame52, May 27, 2021
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  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    #46 37818, May 27, 2021
  7. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Man "must" before God can...

    Thus you remove grace.

    Congratulations, you teach salvation apart from grace, based upon the merited "must" of man.
     
    #47 AustinC, May 27, 2021
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  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You are changing grace to "must." Hebrews 11:6, ". . . without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. . . ."
    Romans 1:16, Romans 4:5, John 3:16, etc.
    I had argued faith does not cause salvation, but is prerequisite with God. It is God who saves not our mere faith.
     
    #48 37818, May 27, 2021
  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You said:
    In your theology "faith is a prerequisite." Prerequisite and "must" are synonyms.

    You are not presenting salvation by grace alone. You add a "prerequisite." Therefore, you remove grace as a means of salvation. You make humans the author of faith, not Jesus.
     
    #49 AustinC, May 27, 2021
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  10. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    George,
    May I remind you that mocking people is not in accordance with Christ's commands regarding our conduct as believers?

    I would have thought you would be already aware of this,
    since you claim to be a pastor.
     
    #50 Dave G, May 27, 2021
  11. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    The same things that George and I have disagreed on since we first interacted with one another:

    Matthew 11:25-27
    Matthew 13:10-11 ( and like passages in Mark 4:9-12 and Luke 8:10 ).
    Matthew 25:31-46.
    John 3:18-21.
    John 3:36
    John 5:24
    John 6:29
    John 6:36-47.
    John 6:64-65.
    John 8:43-47.
    John 10:26-29.
    John 17:2-3.
    Acts of the Apostles 2:39
    Acts of the Apostles 2:47
    Acts of the Apostles 13:48
    Romans 8:28-30.
    Romans 9
    Romans 10:16-21.
    Romans 11:1-8.
    1 Corinthians 1:18-31.
    1 Corinthians 2:6-16.
    Ephesians 1:3-14.
    Ephesians 2:1-10.
    2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.
    2 Timothy 1:9
    Titus 3:5-7

    Psalms 5:5-6.
    Psalms 11:5.
    Psalms 65:4.

    and many others.
     
    #51 Dave G, May 27, 2021
    Last edited: May 27, 2021
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Does not negate by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone . . . .
     
    #52 37818, May 27, 2021
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Can you please give one major point of disageement?
     
    #53 37818, May 27, 2021
  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Sure it does. You have made faith a prerequisite to salvation. That means it's a prerequisite to grace. That removes grace and replaces it with a man created faith that is the cause which moves God to save a person.

    If you want "saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone" then you cannot require a prerequisite. You must allow God to save by grace alone, through the gift of faith, which comes after grace, alone that places the one God chose to save in Christ alone.

    No prerequisites required before God graciously saves. No prerequisites.
     
    #54 AustinC, May 27, 2021
  15. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Election.
    Grace.
    Faith.
    Justification.
    Christ's atonement.
    Man's will versus God's will.
    Man's sinful condition before God.

    All the things that have been discussed in the almost 3 years I've been posting on this forum.
     
    #55 Dave G, May 27, 2021
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Not me, but the written word of God makes faith a requirement. Mark 16:16, ". . . he that believeth not shall be damned. . . ."
     
    #56 37818, May 27, 2021
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    What is the point of disagreement?
     
    #57 37818, May 27, 2021
  18. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    The Bible and what it says.
    Good evening to you, sir.
     
    #58 Dave G, May 27, 2021
    Last edited: May 27, 2021
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Are you going to base your entire theology on a verse that doesn't make faith a prerequisite and isn't even found in the earliest manuscripts?

    Mark 16:15-18
    [Some of the earliest manuscripts do not include 16:9–20.]
    And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

    37818, you have required a prerequisite that God does not require. You teach a doctrine of merited salvation not salvation by grace alone.
     
    #59 AustinC, May 27, 2021
  20. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    I am aware of affected sentiments fronting as spirituality.
     
    #60 George Antonios, May 28, 2021
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