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The Heavens and Earth: Matt. 5:18 in Covenant Context

asterisktom

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Finally,
Are you telling me that, in direct contradiction to the day and the hour of His coming that no man knows ( Matthew 24:36 ), that you somehow are looking back on that very same day and hour, knowing exactly when it was, and none of the rest of us know, because there's no record of it ever happening?
Do you mean to tell me that, in direct contradiction to Isaiah 7:14, that the Virign Birth already happened. That passage says "The Virgin shall conceive and bear a child." Thus it is clearly future. Now, I use that absurd example to make a sane point. Just because we have a Bible passage that speaks of a future event does not mean that it is necessarily future to us in 2021. Jerusalem surrounded by armies, in Luke, is spoken of as future but it is already past. The same with the Sec0nd Coming.

And what kind of record are you looking for? Why do you discount the promise from Christ (many promises) that it would be within that generation?
In addition, are you aware that in a prior thread, you stated that the first resurrection was already past....
Not knowing that the recipients of that resurrection are the only ones who will ever be saved and be with the Lord?
The dead in Christ rising first, and then we which are alive and remaining meeting Him in the clouds?

Tom, the second resurrection is the one unto death.
Those are the ones death and Hell shall give up and their names not found written in the Book of Life.
In effect,
it seems that you're telling people here that not only are you going to the Lake of Fire, but so are they.
You are conflating things. Take a look at Daniel 12:2. Both believers and unbelievers arising. See especially John 5:28-29

"Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."

So, according to you, is this a description of the first or second resurrection? Do you not see how this does not fit your paradigm above?
Please allow me to summarize...
Basically stated, you're telling your readers that,

1) They have no hope in the resurrection, because it is passed. These bodies that they are living in are the only ones they shall ever see.
No. Ridiculous extrapolation. It is hard to explain to you because your theology is wrong on so many points.
2) They have no hope to be with Christ because He's already come and gone...there will be no "3rd coming"...unless the next thing you're going to tell us is that there will be a third coming.
Again, ridiculous. After the Rapture and Resurrection the world still has people living. And from that time onward people still die. And when they die they (and we) will meet the Lord for either reward or judgment.

3) The abomination of desolation happened in the past, as did the tribulation.
Therefore, we're all living in a Post-Tribulational world waiting for a Saviour that will never come again...not even in the clouds.
My Lord and Saviour is with us now. He is reigning now. He is "ruling in the midst of His enemies". Again, you have been mistaught a wrong concept of the Kingdom of God.
4) According to this:

" Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
My suggestion is that you study these things from the more clear parts of Scripture, like John or the Epistles. That will throw much light on Revelation. I just do not have time to tackle this.

The resurrection is past?
Then we've all missed out, and none of us will have glorified bodies that are no longer tainted with sin.
Also, only the ones who have experienced the first resurrection are the ones that the second death ( the Lake of Fire ) has no power over.

Therefore, all who are reading this are going to the Lake of Fire.
See above. You really, really need to study more. The Preterist view is much more positive and spiritually proactive than much of the futurism. We have a present reigning King.

Ouch.
It seems that every time that I look at one of your threads, it gets worse and worse for those who love the Lord.:Sick

Incredible. I hope you see things better soon. You are missing out on major blessing. When I became a Preterist a lot of those parts of the Bible that seemed so difficult suddenly turned on like so many lights. I would not go back to DIspensationalism or any form of futurism for all the world.

The real difficult part of Preterism is all the animosity one gets. We lost friends, lost ministries, and so on. It was hard at first. But now I am so thankful.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Do you mean to tell me that, in direct contradiction to Isaiah 7:14, that the Virign Birth already happened. That passage says "The Virgin shall conceive and bear a child." Thus it is clearly future. Now, I use that absurd example to make a sane point. Just because we have a Bible passage that speaks of a future event does not mean that it is necessarily future to us in 2021. Jerusalem surrounded by armies, in Luke, is spoken of as future but it is already past. The same with the Sec0nd Coming.

And what kind of record are you looking for? Why do you discount the promise from Christ (many promises) that it would be within that generation?

You are conflating things. Take a look at Daniel 12:2. Both believers and unbelievers arising. See especially John 5:28-29

"Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."

So, according to you, is this a description of the first or second resurrection? Do you not see how this does not fit your paradigm above?

No. Ridiculous extrapolation. It is hard to explain to you because your theology is wrong on so many points.

Again, ridiculous. After the Rapture and Resurrection the world still has people living. And from that time onward people still die. And when they die they (and we) will meet the Lord for either reward or judgment.


My Lord and Saviour is with us now. He is reigning now. He is "ruling in the midst of His enemies". Again, you have been mistaught a wrong concept of the Kingdom of God.

My suggestion is that you study these things from the more clear parts of Scripture, like John or the Epistles. That will throw much light on Revelation. I just do not have time to tackle this.


See above. You really, really need to study more. The Preterist view is much more positive and spiritually proactive than much of the futurism. We have a present reigning King.



Incredible. I hope you see things better soon. You are missing out on major blessing. When I became a Preterist a lot of those parts of the Bible that seemed so difficult suddenly turned on like so many lights. I would not go back to DIspensationalism or any form of futurism for all the world.

The real difficult part of Preterism is all the animosity one gets. We lost friends, lost ministries, and so on. It was hard at first. But now I am so thankful.
...so based on a preterist view...this is paradise and the best it gets. Ain't that special...
 

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled". - Matthew 5:18

We bring so much of our own worldview into Scripture that we have a hard time understanding Bible terminology. And many churches today do not help the situation. They are New Testament churches - in the worst sense. They teach the New Testament as a stand-alone revelation, disconnected from the foundational background that gives meaning to much of the New Testament.

Case in point is the "heaven and the earth". No, "heaven and earth" do not exist today. Not the "heaven and earth" that Jesus was speaking about in Matt. 5:18. Those heavens and earth refer to the Jewish dispensation.

"The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.
Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth! For the LORD has spoken: "I have nourished and brought up children, And they have
rebelled against Me;"
- Isaiah 1:1-2

Now, is God speaking to all of the Earth here? Is He speaking to the heavens? No. He is speaking to Israel; according to context, to "Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah".

"But I am the LORD your God, Who divided the sea whose waves roared; The LORD of hosts is His name. And I have put My words in your mouth; I have covered you with the shadow of My hand, That I may plant the heavens, Lay the foundations of the earth, And say to Zion, 'You
are My people.'"
- Isaiah 51:15-16

When did God create the Heavens and Earth? According to this passage it was after He divided the Red Sea. Notice the tenses - "That I may plant..." No, I am not denying the physical creation as described in Genesis 1, but that is not the topic here. And - once again, focusing on this passage in Isaiah - what were the
accompanying results?

1. The planting of the heavens,
2. The laying of the foundations of the earth, and
3. The saying to Zion, "You are My people".


It is this "heavens and earth" Jesus is referring to in Matt. 5:18.

Peter, writing three decades later, but still before the Parousia, describes this same heavens and earth:

"But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." 2 Peter. 3:7

Peter is looking forward to the time that Isaiah had written of:

"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." - Isaiah 65:17

Peter looked forward to an event that we now look back on. An event whose present reality we are blessed with. But once again, most have a hard time appreciating the context of Christ's, Peter's, and Isaiah's words because we are so attuned to our own understanding of the phrase "heavens and earth", not the Scriptural intent.

I'll take the most benign way possible: are you unaware of, or opposed to, the revelation that the Lord will create a new millennial heavens and earth at his second coming?
 

asterisktom

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I'll take the most benign way possible: are you unaware of, or opposed to, the revelation that the Lord will create a new millennial heavens and earth at his second coming?

Are you so opposed to the Melchizedekan Priesthood of Christ that you look forward fondly to an imagined return to the Levitical Priesthood?
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You need to study what "this generation" means.

@Dave G knows, he's been told.

"That particular generation of Christ's day was a peculiar generation in that it had been foretold of through prophecy such as the Song of Moses [Dt 31:16 - Dt 32], which also is quoted from several times in the NT. Only minutes earlier in the temple had Christ prophesied again concerning that particular generation:

33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?
34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:
35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Mt 23

Christ is still referring to that particular generation in the Olivet Discourse.

There's a consistent underlying continuity of the scriptures concerning that very wicked generation. They're called serpents and offspring of vipers by Christ and John the Baptist and specifically singled out by Moses some 1400 years earlier where he plainly states “they are not His children”:

21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are come upon them, that this song shall testify before them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they frame this day, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
22 So Moses wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.
29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do that which is evil in the sight of Jehovah, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. Dt 31
5 They have dealt corruptly with him, they are not his children, it is their blemish; They are a perverse and crooked generation.
20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: For they are a very perverse generation, Children in whom is no faithfulness.
21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; They have provoked me to anger with their vanities: And I will move them to jealousy with those that are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. Dt 32

8 Then certain of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying, Teacher, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet:
40 for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall stand up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, a greater than Jonah is here.
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
43 But the unclean spirit, when he is gone out of the man, passeth through waterless places, seeking rest, and findeth it not.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man becometh worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this evil generation. Mt 12

1 And the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and trying him asked him to show them a sign from heaven.
2 But he answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the heaven is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to-day: for the heaven is red and lowering. Ye know how to discern the face of the heaven; but ye cannot discern the signs of the times.
4 An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of Jonah. And he left them, and departed. Mt 16

24 for as the lightning, when it lighteneth out of the one part under the heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things and be rejected of this generation. Lu 17

22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the marketplaces, who call unto their fellows
17 and say, We piped unto you, and ye did not dance; we wailed, and ye did not mourn.
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a demon.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold, a gluttonous man and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! And wisdom is justified by her works. Mt 11

40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

And Josephus certainly had nothing good to say of 'that generation':

“It is therefore impossible to go distinctly over every instance of these men's iniquity. I shall therefore speak my mind here at once briefly: - That neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was, from the beginning of the world.....” Book 5, ch 10, sec. 5

“.. I suppose, that had the Romans made any longer delay in coming against these villains, that the city would either have been swallowed up by the ground opening upon them, or been overflowed by water, or else been destroyed by such thunder as the country of Sodom (20) perished by, for it had brought forth a generation of men much more atheistical than were those that suffered such punishments; for by their madness it was that all the people came to be destroyed....” Book 5, ch. 13, sec. 6

“....and I cannot but think that it was because God had doomed this city to destruction, as a polluted city, and was resolved to purge his sanctuary by fire, that he cut off these their great defenders and well-wishers, while those that a little before had worn the sacred garments, and had presided over the public worship; and had been esteemed venerable by those that dwelt on the whole habitable earth when they came into our city, were cast out naked, and seen to be the food of dogs and wild beasts. And I cannot but imagine that virtue itself groaned at these men's case, and lamented that she was here so terribly conquered by wickedness.....” Book 4, ch. 5, sec. 2"
 

asterisktom

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Hunh? I asked an honest question. So what's your answer? Just wanted to know your view.

I assumed your were asking for more, since I already showed that is not a case of being unaware of the Millennium doctrine. I had already stated that I myself believed it, taught it for decades. So, yes, I am very much opposed to it. It is a two-tier people of God system with the Jews in that imagined future scenario getting the short end of the stick.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
the Jews in that imagined future scenario getting the short end of the stick.

??? Don't understand what you mean. Dispies believe Jews are "The Holy People", God's elect race....

IMO, they've basically become 'Jew-worshippers'...
 

asterisktom

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
@Dave G knows, he's been told.

"That particular generation of Christ's day was a peculiar generation in that it had been foretold of through prophecy such as the Song of Moses [Dt 31:16 - Dt 32], which also is quoted from several times in the NT. Only minutes earlier in the temple had Christ prophesied again concerning that particular generation:

33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?
34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:
35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Mt 23

Christ is still referring to that particular generation in the Olivet Discourse.

There's a consistent underlying continuity of the scriptures concerning that very wicked generation. They're called serpents and offspring of vipers by Christ and John the Baptist and specifically singled out by Moses some 1400 years earlier where he plainly states “they are not His children”:

21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are come upon them, that this song shall testify before them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they frame this day, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
22 So Moses wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.
29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do that which is evil in the sight of Jehovah, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. Dt 31
5 They have dealt corruptly with him, they are not his children, it is their blemish; They are a perverse and crooked generation.
20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: For they are a very perverse generation, Children in whom is no faithfulness.
21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; They have provoked me to anger with their vanities: And I will move them to jealousy with those that are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. Dt 32

8 Then certain of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying, Teacher, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet:
40 for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall stand up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, a greater than Jonah is here.
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
43 But the unclean spirit, when he is gone out of the man, passeth through waterless places, seeking rest, and findeth it not.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man becometh worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this evil generation. Mt 12

1 And the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and trying him asked him to show them a sign from heaven.
2 But he answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the heaven is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to-day: for the heaven is red and lowering. Ye know how to discern the face of the heaven; but ye cannot discern the signs of the times.
4 An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of Jonah. And he left them, and departed. Mt 16

24 for as the lightning, when it lighteneth out of the one part under the heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things and be rejected of this generation. Lu 17

22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the marketplaces, who call unto their fellows
17 and say, We piped unto you, and ye did not dance; we wailed, and ye did not mourn.
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a demon.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold, a gluttonous man and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! And wisdom is justified by her works. Mt 11

40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

And Josephus certainly had nothing good to say of 'that generation':

“It is therefore impossible to go distinctly over every instance of these men's iniquity. I shall therefore speak my mind here at once briefly: - That neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was, from the beginning of the world.....” Book 5, ch 10, sec. 5

“.. I suppose, that had the Romans made any longer delay in coming against these villains, that the city would either have been swallowed up by the ground opening upon them, or been overflowed by water, or else been destroyed by such thunder as the country of Sodom (20) perished by, for it had brought forth a generation of men much more atheistical than were those that suffered such punishments; for by their madness it was that all the people came to be destroyed....” Book 5, ch. 13, sec. 6

“....and I cannot but think that it was because God had doomed this city to destruction, as a polluted city, and was resolved to purge his sanctuary by fire, that he cut off these their great defenders and well-wishers, while those that a little before had worn the sacred garments, and had presided over the public worship; and had been esteemed venerable by those that dwelt on the whole habitable earth when they came into our city, were cast out naked, and seen to be the food of dogs and wild beasts. And I cannot but imagine that virtue itself groaned at these men's case, and lamented that she was here so terribly conquered by wickedness.....” Book 4, ch. 5, sec. 2"

Thanks. I had copied these verses and Josephus quotes years ago but lost them when the laptop was stolen. I now saved your hard work and will surely use them again. And these are nowhere near the verses you could have used.

I noticed also in that link that Dave G. never answered your post. But, then again, how could he? A person might more easily argue against a single verse or two, but over a hundred? Not possible. Best to just ignore them. :Sleep:Rolleyes
 

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
??? Don't understand what you mean. Dispies believe Jews are "The Holy People", God's elect race....

IMO, they've basically become 'Jew-worshippers'...

Because I believe the Jewish people are the elect people of God, as a nation, I'm a Jew worshipper?
So, because I believe that Christians are the sons of God (a position higher that the Jewish "people of God") am I therefore a Christians-worshipper? And since you also believe that Christians are the sons of God, are you a Christians-worshipper?

Sad old envy.
 

asterisktom

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
??? Don't understand what you mean. Dispies believe Jews are "The Holy People", God's elect race....

IMO, they've basically become 'Jew-worshippers'...

Yes, and they are stuck in a ghetto version of Heaven with sin and death still present, not to mention all the ordinances and sacrifices for sin.
 

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
Yes, and they are stuck in a ghetto version of Heaven with sin and death still present, not to mention all the ordinances and sacrifices for sin.

Only for the millennial kingdom, not eternity. That's what the book says. Whether it makes sense to me or not, I must believe it.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Because I believe the Jewish people are the elect people of God, as a nation, I'm a Jew worshipper?

You make 'a distinction' between Jew and non-Jew that the scripture tells you multiple times is not there:

And the Spirit bade me go with them, making no distinction...Acts 11:12

and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. Acts 15:9

even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; Ro 3:22

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: Ro 9:12

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: Ro 10:12

where there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bondman, freeman; but Christ is all, and in all. Col 3:11

There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28

For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit. 1 Cor 12:13

15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. Gal 6

14 For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,
15 having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; Eph 2

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. Jn 10

...only Dispies make a distinction....placing Jews on a pedestal, bordering on idolatry.
 

asterisktom

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
IMO, they've basically become 'Jew-worshippers'...

Most certainly. And this attitude has really polluted the witness of Christianity in the eyes of the world. It translates all too often into an Israel-can-do-no-wrong mindset. This is partly why the wretched modern Israel feels emboldened to continue their ongoing genocide against the Palestinians. This is why Israel has so many American politicians and our media in their pockets.

They seem to have forgotten Gal. 3:28

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus".
 

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
You make 'a distinction' between Jew and non-Jew that the scripture tells you multiple times is not there:

And the Spirit bade me go with them, making no distinction...Acts 11:12

and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. Acts 15:9

even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; Ro 3:22

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: Ro 9:12

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: Ro 10:12

where there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bondman, freeman; but Christ is all, and in all. Col 3:11

There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28

For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit. 1 Cor 12:13

15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. Gal 6

14 For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,
15 having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; Eph 2

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. Jn 10

...only Dispies make a distinction....placing Jews on a pedestal, bordering on idolatry.

You utterly ignored the question/point. But that's Ok, envy is a sad little thing. All the best.
 
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