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Faith prior to being saved, Romans 10:13-15.

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37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Romans 10:13-15, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? . . ."

In this text salvation is preceded by calling on the LORD. And the calling on the LORD is preceded by believing. And the believing is preceded by hearing the gospel. And the hearing the gospel is preceded by the sending of a preacher to speak the gospel.

The point being made here is the salvation is preceded by believing.
There are other texts which teach faith precedes salvation.
Romans 10:9.
Mark 16:16.
Acts of the Apostles 16:31.
To list a few.
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
In this text salvation is preceded by calling on the LORD. And the calling on the LORD is preceded by believing. And the believing is preceded by hearing the gospel. And the hearing the gospel is preceded by the sending of a preacher to speak the gospel.
Click to expand...
I once believed that, until I saw Romans 8:29-30, Romans 9, Ephesians 1:3-14, Ephesians 2:1-10, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8 and several others, including the last half of John 6, parts of John 8, and a few statements in John 10.

For examples,
"And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." ( John 6:65 ). <-------- Being given to Christ by His Father precedes coming to ( believing on ) Christ.

" But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. " ( John 10:26 ) <------Being one of Christ's sheep precedes belief.

Acts of the Apostles 2:47 <----- The Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved, from His perspective.
Acts of the Apostles 13:48 <----- Being ordained to eternal life precedes belief.
Acts of the Apostles 16:14 <------ God opening Lydia's heart preceded her listening to the words spoken by Paul.

But I do see that actually calling upon the Lord is preceded by belief, and belief is preceded by hearing the word of God, and hearing the word of God is preceded by a preacher being sent from God.:)

In other words, from our point of view and our experience as believers, our eig brought to the knowledge of our salvation is indeed preceded by our belief...
From God's point of view, His choice of us to salvation precedes our belief.
37818 said:
The point being made here is the salvation is preceded by believing.
Click to expand...
I agree, if one understands Romans 10 in isolation from what was developed before it in Romans chapters 1 through 9.

However, in Romans 8, for example, I clearly see that God only performs what is found in Romans 8:29-30 for those that He has foreknown, and no one else.
In Romans 9, God only has mercy and compassion on the vessels of mercy, which He has afore prepared unto glory.

These both tell me that God's purposes according to election stand...just as Romans 9:11 spells out;
That being not born, neither having done and good or evil, His purpose according to election shall stand...

Not of works, but of Him that calls ( summons ).
 
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Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
There are other texts which teach faith precedes salvation.
Romans 10:9.
Mark 16:16.
Acts of the Apostles 16:31.
To list a few.
Click to expand...

1) " that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

Whether or not God chose people in Christ from the foundation of the world ( which He did, please see Ephesians 1:4 ),
and only grants what we see in Romans 8:29-30 to those He has, in His wisdom and mercy, decided to save,
and Jesus only gives eternal life to those which were given to Him by His Father in John 17:2,

If someone actually does what is contained in Romans 10:9, I hold that the text is true...they shall be saved.


2) " He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." ( Mark 16:16 ).

Same here, as in both cases I understand that this is looking forward to Judgment Day:
A future event when all of humanity shall be separated...the "sheep" from the "goats".
For reference, see Matthew 25:31-46.



3) " Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 and brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." ( Acts of the Apostles 16:29-31 ).

Again, same here...notwithstanding that Paul and Barnabas also promised the jailer that his house would be saved as well.

However,
I've also come to believe, after several years of interaction regarding this subject on this and other forums,
Since the answer to this is a matter of one's personal understanding of how God's gift of eternal life is accomplished in the life of a believer, then I see that it really does no good to try and discuss it at length unless the other person sees it the same way in the course of their own studies.

If we agree, then we agree.

If we do not, then with Amos 3:3 firmly in mind...
"Can two walk together unless they be agreed?"
The answer is, "no, we cannot".:(

We are left with having to agree to disagree.


May God bless you greatly.
 
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B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Romans 10:13-15, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? . . ."

In this text salvation is preceded by calling on the LORD. And the calling on the LORD is preceded by believing. And the believing is preceded by hearing the gospel. And the hearing the gospel is preceded by the sending of a preacher to speak the gospel.

The point being made here is the salvation is preceded by believing.
There are other texts which teach faith precedes salvation.
Romans 10:9.
Mark 16:16.
Acts of the Apostles 16:31.
To list a few.
Click to expand...
It says shall be saved, not shall get saved. Calling upon the name of the lord evidences one is already in a saved state.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
It says shall be saved, not shall get saved. Calling upon the name of the lord evidences one is already in a saved state.
Click to expand...
Really? You seem to deny an explicit teaching from the word of God by twisting God's word.
The text does not say "have been saved." And faith is prior to calling on the LORD.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Dave G said:
I once believed that, until I saw Romans 8:29-30, Romans 9, Ephesians 1:3-14, Ephesians 2:1-10, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8 and several others, including the last half of John 6, parts of John 8, and a few statements in John 10.

For examples,
"And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." ( John 6:65 ). <-------- Being given to Christ by His Father precedes coming to ( believing on ) Christ.

" But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. " ( John 10:26 ) <------Being one of Christ's sheep precedes belief.

Acts of the Apostles 2:47 <----- The Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved, from His perspective.
Acts of the Apostles 13:48 <----- Being ordained to eternal life precedes belief.
Acts of the Apostles 16:14 <------ God opening Lydia's heart preceded her listening to the words spoken by Paul.

But I do see that actually calling upon the Lord is preceded by belief, and belief is preceded by hearing the word of God, and hearing the word of God is preceded by a preacher being sent from God.:)

In other words, from our point of view and our experience as believers, our eig brought to the knowledge of our salvation is indeed preceded by our belief...
From God's point of view, His choice of us to salvation precedes our belief.

I agree, if one understands Romans 10 in isolation from what was developed before it in Romans chapters 1 through 9.

However, in Romans 8, for example, I clearly see that God only performs what is found in Romans 8:29-30 for those that He has foreknown, and no one else.
In Romans 9, God only has mercy and compassion on the vessels of mercy, which He has afore prepared unto glory.

These both tell me that God's purposes according to election stand...just as Romans 9:11 spells out;
That being not born, neither having done and good or evil, His purpose according to election shall stand...

Not of works, but of Him that calls ( summons ).
Click to expand...
Wow.
Ephesians 2:1-10 says "through faith." And qualifies "and that not of yourselves: . . ."
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Hmm. The notion of regeneration prior to faith might be referred to as the unBiblical sixth point of Calvinism. I find this notion of regeneration prior to faith to be totally untenable being unBiblical. Yeah, the five points have real Biblical bases, though not all of those five interpretations are agreed upon.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Really? You seem to deny an explicit teaching from the word of God by twisting God's word.
The text does not say "have been saved." And faith is prior to calling on the LORD.
Click to expand...
It says shall be saved, thats not denying anything, if anyone is denying its you !
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
It says shall be saved, thats not denying anything, if anyone is denying its you !
Click to expand...
What in the text of Romans 10:13-15 did I explicitly deny? The text places calling on the LORD prior to shall be saved and faith prior to one calling on the LORD. Do you affirm faith is prior to salvation in the text or not?
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
What in the text of Romans 10:13-15 did I explicitly deny? The text places calling on the LORD prior to shall be saved and faith prior to one calling on the LORD. Do you affirm faith is prior to salvation in the text or not?
Click to expand...
Whatever you said I deny. Calling on the Name of the Lord evidences one is already in a saved state. Shall be saved or will be saved is a state of being ! You just never thought it out, its called carelessness !
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Whatever you said I deny. Calling on the Name of the Lord evidences one is already in a saved state. Shall be saved or will be saved is a state of being ! You just never thought it out, its called carelessness !
Click to expand...
We do not agree. And there is no reasoning with you on this matter because Romans 10:13-15 says otherwise.
 
R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
37818 said:
Romans 10:13-15, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? . . ."

In this text salvation is preceded by calling on the LORD. And the calling on the LORD is preceded by believing. And the believing is preceded by hearing the gospel. And the hearing the gospel is preceded by the sending of a preacher to speak the gospel.

The point being made here is the salvation is preceded by believing.
There are other texts which teach faith precedes salvation.
Romans 10:9.
Mark 16:16.
Acts of the Apostles 16:31.
To list a few.
Click to expand...

That is exactly right. Many of the proof texts in John used to support the reformed position are done so eisegetically and out of context.
 
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