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Faith prior to being saved, Romans 10:13-15.

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kyredneck

kyredneck

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MB said:
Does this mean you don't believe the good Shepard goes looking for the lost sheep.
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No. It means I reject that 'saved' means 'saved from eternal torment' and 'lost' means 'bound for eternal torment'.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
The Gospel is hidden to them that are Lost so they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4 !
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Actually that is the phenomena as to the why of the lost.
To understand, if possible, how an ex-christian did not correctly believe the gospel. One needs to try to find out how, when he was a professing Christian, believed one became,a saved Christian.
 
old regular

old regular

Active Member
Understanding the word '' saved'' and what '' saved'' is in consideration in each passage helps to keep us right, the word saved is not always speaking of eternal salvation I Timothy 4:16 '' Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine: continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee" Mark 16:16 '' He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" eternal salvation is by God's Grace and mercy 2 Timothy 1:9 '' Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace , which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, '' the other salvation's are requiring man to do something . Christ is a whole and complete Savior not a part Savior I Corinthians 15:2 " By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless you have believed in vain" saved how and from what John 3:36 '' He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life... " faith is the fruit of the Spirit Galatians 5:22 one must first have the Apple Tree before they can get an Apple. " The hearing ear , and the seeing eye , the Lord hath made them both." Proverbs 20:12
 
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1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
So now it's two kinds of faith. What else are you Calvinists going to change?



You did notice that "Calls" is in the subjective mood. The mood of possibility. In other words some may call some may not. Those that do call will be saved those that do not call will not be saved. So again your treatment of this verse is wrong.

As for your comment re indicative mood, your right those that do call on the Lord will be saved, but they are saved after they call on His name that is why it says "shall be".

Another thought, if as you say they were already saved why did they have to call on the Lord?

So by your logic
the person is saved before they call and
they call before they believe and
they believe before they hear the gospel and
they hear the gospel before it is presented and
the preacher presents the gospel before he is sent.

Rom 10:14-15
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Only those who experience biblical faith know the difference.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
MB said:
Saving faith is man's faith it's the only faith he will ever have. There is no text for a special saving faith as Calvinist wish to claim. Special faith does not exist in scripture. Calvinist made this up
MB
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Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Once you experience it you will know the difference.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Actually that is the phenomena as to the why of the lost.
To understand, if possible, how an ex-christian did not correctly believe the gospel. One needs to try to find out how, when he was a professing Christian, believed one became,a saved Christian.
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I don't believe there is such a thing as an X Christian I hold to OSAS. What people call X Christian is a pretend Christian or one who thinks he is saved.. After all "Never" never stops .
MB
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
MB said:
If so it can't be a gift. A fruit is what we work for it's a reward for a Job well done.
MB
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Scripture says it is a gift.
“And Peter answered them, Repent (change your views and purpose to accept the will of God in your inner selves instead of rejecting it) and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of and release from your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” Acts 2:38 (AMP)

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (KJV 1900)
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Scripture says it is a gift.
“And Peter answered them, Repent (change your views and purpose to accept the will of God in your inner selves instead of rejecting it) and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of and release from your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” Acts 2:38 (AMP)

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (KJV 1900)
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The Gift of the Holy Spirit is the "Spirit" He dwells with in us This faith we are speaking of is more faith. An increase in faith.
MB
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
MB said:
I don't believe there is such a thing as an X Christian I hold to OSAS. What people call X Christian is a pretend Christian or one who thinks he is saved.. After all "Never" never stops .
MB
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Which means the "X Christian" so-called never correctly undeerstood correctly the Gospel per 2 Corinthians 4:3-4. Which is a phenomena of the lost.
37818 said:
Actually that is the phenomena as to the why of the lost.
To understand, if possible, how an ex-christian did not correctly believe the gospel. One needs to try to find out how, when he was a professing Christian, believed one became,a saved Christian.
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There are in fact former professing Christians.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="37818, post: 2713098, member: 14338].

There are in fact former professing Christians.[/QUOTE]
Yes they profess to be for a lot of reasons. One man I spoke to told me he profess to be a Christian to fit in. What makes them do this varies . Mostly I suspect to judge others making themselves look good, and not be judged a sinner. What they do not realize is we are all sinners just saved from our sins.

MB
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
MB said:
Your reply makes no sense
MB
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If faith is of human flesh origin, it is totally depraved and only chooses idols to worship in Christ's name. Once you experience biblical faith, the difference becomes more than obvious.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
Myself I know I'm saved and would be unable to deny it.I don't believe a man can deny Christ once you really believe. Love IMHO is not deniable Love endures all things no matter what they are. Infactuation is not real Love. It's temporary..Simply put you cannot turn Love off if it's real.I Love Christ every true Christian does.
MB
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
MB said:
Myself I know I'm saved and would be unable to deny it.I don't believe a man can deny Christ once you really believe. Love IMHO is not deniable Love endures all things no matter what they are. Infactuation is not real Love. It's temporary..Simply put you cannot turn Love off if it's real.I Love Christ every true Christian does.
MB
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The Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit. This is what caused me to believe in Christ. It never came down to making a choice. It is an experience you cannot doubt once you have His presence.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
If faith is of human flesh origin, it is totally depraved and only chooses idols to worship in Christ's name. Once you experience biblical faith, the difference becomes more than obvious.
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Total depravity just plain ignorant. Men fall in Love with Christ at hearing the gospel and the hearing of the gospel gives them faith.
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
With out hearing the gospel there is no faith. because it is not a gift
The Gift in EPH 2:8 is Salvation.
Of course you deny Rom. 10:17
MB
 
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