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Faith prior to being saved, Romans 10:13-15.

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1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
MB said:
Total depravity just plain ignorant. Men fall in Love with Christ at hearing the gospel and the hearing of the gospel gives them faith.
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
With out hearing the gospel there is no faith. because it is not a gift
The Gift in EPH 2:8 is Salvation.
Of course you deny Rom. 10:17
MB
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People hate God by nature. They only love idols bearing his name unless first born-again. Only then can they discern the true Christ and worship him.

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

“For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.” 1 Corinthians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900)

“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Corinthians 4:3–4 (KJV 1900)
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
MB said:
Your reply makes no sense
MB
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Why not? There are in fact former professing Christians who are no longer professing Christians. We agree in OSOS. So the "X-Christians" were never really former genuine Christians.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
People hate God by nature. They only love idols bearing his name unless first born-again. Only then can they discern the true Christ and worship him.

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

“For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.” 1 Corinthians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900)

“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Corinthians 4:3–4 (KJV 1900)
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Speak for your self Dave I've never hated God. You need to show scripture that says the lost hate God. There are some who hate God but not all.
MB
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Why not? There are in fact former professing Christians who are no longer professing Christians. We agree in OSOS. So the "X-Christians" were never really former genuine Christians.
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A professing Christian is not a true Christian.Once a Christian always a Christian. There is no walking away for a true Christian. A true Christian can stray but are always found and brought back into the fold.
MB
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
MB said:
Speak for your self Dave I've never hated God. You need to show scripture that says the lost hate God. There are some who hate God but not all.
MB
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Are you sure? Many choose an acceptable Christ that appeals to the flesh. They hate the true God. Think of it this way. If Calvin was right about sin and grace, how many people actually hate God? This doesn't mean they are not saved But it means they are deceived for the time being.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
MB said:
Total depravity just plain ignorant. Men fall in Love with Christ at hearing the gospel and the hearing of the gospel gives them faith.
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
With out hearing the gospel there is no faith. because it is not a gift
The Gift in EPH 2:8 is Salvation.
Of course you deny Rom. 10:17
MB
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Faith is part of Salvation by the Grace of God, No Grace, No Faith ! Eph 2:8
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
MB said:
You have it backwards. it's no Faith no Grace. Grace comes through Faith there fore Faith comes first.according to scripture.
MB
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No you have it backwards, people believe because of Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

That word through is the prep dia and means because of ,
  1. on this account
  1. because of for this reason
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
No you have it backwards, people believe because of Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

That word through is the prep dia and means because of ,



    • on this account



    • because of for this reason
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You are denying the truth of scripture.

The Bible clearly states Grace comes through Faith. If it comes through Faith then Faith comes first other wise there is no faith for grace to come through.
Most Calvinist suffer from a lack of reading comprehension.
MB
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Are you sure?

Many choose an acceptable Christ that appeals to the flesh.
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Absolutely sure and the flesh has nothing to do with it. I was saved just as scripture says. I was not forced into it as Calvinist claim. I believed in Jesus Christ as my savior and He saved me. I decided to follow Christ. I was invited.I was saved according to scripture.

1689Dave said:
They hate the true God. Think of it this way. If Calvin was right about sin and grace, how many people actually hate God? This doesn't mean they are not saved But it means they are deceived for the time being.
Click to expand...

Hate is a choice we choose to do. Scripture never says everyone hates God. I know you get this from Rom. 3:10-20 which are the sayings of a fool. Ps 14 He also said there is no God. This states what men hate. It's other men who are righteous. It says men do not seek God. This isn't true I sought Him and begged Him to save me. I was under conviction. According to scripture. Your view is not according to scripture. If men don't hear the gospel it's there fault because of rejection. When men reject the hearing of the word it's their fault not Gods.

Your doctrines blame God for man's rejection. I'd call that hating God Your determinism makes God the sinner..Leaving man innocent of any wrong doing
MB
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
MB said:
Absolutely sure and the flesh has nothing to do with it. I was saved just as scripture says. I was not forced into it as Calvinist claim. I believed in Jesus Christ as my savior and He saved me. I decided to follow Christ. I was invited.I was saved according to scripture.



Hate is a choice we choose to do. Scripture never says everyone hates God. I know you get this from Rom. 3:10-20 which are the sayings of a fool. Ps 14 He also said there is no God. This states what men hate. It's other men who are righteous. It says men do not seek God. This isn't true I sought Him and begged Him to save me. I was under conviction. According to scripture. Your view is not according to scripture. If men don't hear the gospel it's there fault because of rejection. When men reject the hearing of the word it's their fault not Gods.

Your doctrines blame God for man's rejection. I'd call that hating God Your determinism makes God the sinner..Leaving man innocent of any wrong doing
MB
Click to expand...
God doesn't force any to be saved. He miraculously gives you a new heart that discerns the true Christ. And the witness of the Holy Spirit causes you to believe. Free will is not involved. If you ever experience this you will understand it.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Faith is part of Salvation by Grace, No Grace, No Salvation, No Faith. None of it is of ourselves, its all the Gift of God.
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As you have here stated this, I agree. Nevertheless hearing the gospel precedes through faith because "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: . . ."
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
MB said:
You are denying the truth of scripture.

The Bible clearly states Grace comes through Faith. If it comes through Faith then Faith comes first other wise there is no faith for grace to come through.
Most Calvinist suffer from a lack of reading comprehension.
MB
Click to expand...
Im witnessing to the Truth of scripture.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
As you have here stated this, I agree. Nevertheless hearing the gospel precedes through faith because "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: . . ."
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No Grace, No Faith ! Faith, Salvation, Grace all the Gift of God, nothing of man !
 
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