37818
Well-Known Member
From the death of their souls. James 5:20. Ezekiel 18:4. And I guess according to you 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 does not have a good enough answer, ". . . that Christ died for our sins . . . ."
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Faith prior to being saved, Romans 10:13-15.
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From the death of their souls. James 5:20. Ezekiel 18:4. And I guess according to you 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 does not have a good enough answer, ". . . that Christ died for our sins . . . ."
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
complete and utter RUBBISH!!!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
their SINS!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
NOT what the Greek actully says!, WERE BEING SAVED
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Human faith is not saving faith. It's the kind of faith you buy used cars with. Saving faith is from the Holy Spirit and confirms that God saved you. You cannot have it unless He did. "Used car" faith is what the Catholics have in their salvation by works scheme. It's blind and has no spiritual basis. Holy Spirit faith is supernatural and not from you. It's from God and confirms that He saved you, paying for your sins on the cross. You would not have this type of faith had He not saved you. "Whoever believes" is a trait of the saved. Not a condition the sinful flesh can meet.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
This is typical misuse of the Sciptures by the Reformed/Calvinist. Acts chapter 2 proves this to be WRONG:
1. Peter preaches the Gospel on the Day of Pentecost. verses 14-36
2. In his Message, Peter quotes from the Old Testament Prophet, Joel, "And it shall be that everyone whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved". This is BEFORE they are saved, not as some FALSELY teach, after!
3. Many of those who heard this Gospel Message, were, "pierced to the heart" (verse 37). Which is exactly what Jesus says the Work of the Holy Spirit, is for the unregenerate sinner, "When He comes (the Holy Spirit), He will CONVICT (pierce the heart) the world (entire human race) about sin...of sin, because they do not believe in Me" (verses 8-9)
4. Those who were "pierced to the heart", said to Peter and the others, "Brothers, what are we to DO?” (37). Peter does not say, "do nothing", BUT, he does say, "Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far away, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” (38-39)
5. Only after these DO as Peter says they should, are they BORN AGAIN!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Romans 10:17, " So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God"
No mention of 'hell' or 'the lake of fire'. Temporal, not eternal 'rescue'.
19 My brethren, if any among you err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 let him know, that he who converteth a sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins. Ja 5
Rescuing an erring brother from the error of his way.
2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children`s teeth are set on edge?
3 As I live, saith the Lord Jehovah, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezek 18
No mention of 'hell' or 'the lake of fire'. Temporal, not eternal. referring to erring Israelites. But both of these do jibe with:
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2
1 Now I make known unto you brethren, the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye received, wherein also ye stand,
2 by which also ye are saved, if ye hold fast the word which I preached unto you, except ye believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which also I received: that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 and that he was buried; and that he hath been raised on the third day according to the scriptures; 1 Cor 15
Christ died for my sins. That's eternal. The gospel rescues/delivers me from error in this temporal realm. It's the grandest thing there is to ever know.
10 but hath now been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 2 Tim 1
Christ abolished death. That's eternal. The gospel tells me about that. It's the grandest thing there is to ever know.
37818
Well-Known Member
And there is the popular notion of being saved from not going to Heaven when one dies. ( 2 Corinthians 5:8 )
37818
Well-Known Member
@kyredneck
I could be wrong, but I assume you understood souls die in Hell the lake of fire being the second death. Revelation 21:8.
I could be wrong, but I assume you understood souls die in Hell the lake of fire being the second death. Revelation 21:8.
The popular 'prevailing' notion, particularly among evangelicals, is that 'saved' is 'saved from hell', and 'lost' is 'bound for hell'. I've yet to see that premise proven from scripture. Both are sheep but there is a distinction between 'saved sheep' and 'lost sheep', but it's not in the eternal sense.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Well if you look at the Greek {shall be saved G4982 (G5701)} it shows that this is:
Tense-Future See [G5776]
Voice-Passive See [G5786]
Mood -Indicative See [G5791]
So we are being told that those that call on the Lord will be saved after they have done so not that they have to be saved in order to call on the Lord. That is you just reading into the text what you want to see.
Does this mean you don't believe the good Shepard goes looking for the lost sheep.
Luk_15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
Luk 15:5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
Luk 15:6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
MB
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
I already know what it is in the Greek. Nothing changes. The word be is important in understanding the verse. The verse is in the indicative mood, so Paul has their present and future salvation in mind. They are in a saved state and shall be saved eternally, that's eternal security as well.
37818
Well-Known Member
There are no texts in the New Testament which teaches the lost are saved prior to their faith.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
The Gospel is hidden to them that are Lost so they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4 !
Saving faith is man's faith it's the only faith he will ever have. There is no text for a special saving faith as Calvinist wish to claim. Special faith does not exist in scripture. Calvinist made this up
MB
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
So now it's two kinds of faith. What else are you Calvinists going to change?
You did notice that "Calls" is in the subjective mood. The mood of possibility. In other words some may call some may not. Those that do call will be saved those that do not call will not be saved. So again your treatment of this verse is wrong.
As for your comment re indicative mood, your right those that do call on the Lord will be saved, but they are saved after they call on His name that is why it says "shall be".
Another thought, if as you say they were already saved why did they have to call on the Lord?
So by your logic
the person is saved before they call and
they call before they believe and
they believe before they hear the gospel and
they hear the gospel before it is presented and
the preacher presents the gospel before he is sent.
Rom 10:14-15
I can only guess that you were never blind to the gospel or lost with out a savior.
MB
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