Are the British Empire & the USA in prophecy?

[robycop3]

No. Whatever happened to the people calling themselves "Jews" was a response to their actions against the political authorities whether good or bad, NOT God's continuing judgement.

Deut. 5:8 ‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 9 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Eze. 18:20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.​

Your suggestion that God has kept 50 generations of his chosen people under judgment for the sins of one generation is not the God of Moses, nor the Prophets, nor Jesus and his Apostle.

Well, actually, it WAS, because the Jews continued to reject Jesus, as the Orthodox Jews still do today. However, as the time of the eschatological events approaches, God has restored the Jews to their own sovereign nation again to fulfill prophecy & to be used to fulfill other prophecies.

 

[1689Dave]

As far as God is concerned unbelievers calling themselves "Jews" are simply a people group needing the Gospel. All unbelievers are under God's wrath and are welcomed by the Gospel.

God's wrath against the Jews was limited to "this generation" and ended with the AD 70 destruction. Limited to the third and fourth generation. Persecution down through the last 2,000 years is by evil men & corrupt churches, NOT according to God's will. They have a lifetime to repent, before they face judgment.



Paul explains this -

1 Cor. 9:19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; 20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; 22 to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.​

Praise the Lord!
Incidentally, in Bible times vast numbers of Jews were proselytes - including those present at Pentecost.

Note-
Esther 8:17 And in every province and city, wherever the king’s command and decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a holiday. Then many of the people of the land became Jews, because fear of the Jews fell upon them.​

God's wrath is on anyone who rejects Christ, especially those who hate him most.

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 (KJV 1900)

 

[1689Dave]

That is not true categorically. A prime example is whom God chose to go in and take the Promised Land. They weren't circumcised until grown, yet they did not cease to be Israel despite being uncircumcised. See Joshua 5:2-9.

That was temporary because of the wilderness journey. All of Abraham's seed were circumcised but Ishmael was his only blood relative in the community.

 

[1689Dave]

And Paul reminds us that the physical Jews, which were originally part of that "tree", can be grafted back onto it all-the-more-readily.

But God removed them. Only those who accept Christ are grafted back into the Church.

 

[1689Dave]

Throughout Scripture, where they're set apart from other peoples.

So are Christians.

 

[1689Dave]

Then how come Paul called himself a Jew after his salvation???????????????

Because he was a Jew ministering to Jews. But also said; “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:” Romans 2:28 (KJV 1900)

 

[percho]

Judaism is a religion.
Being a Jew is being of a certain race.
Scripture does NOT rule out racism. Non-Israelis were not allowed in the Tabernacle or temple.

A very interesting verse.

Gal 1:14 καὶ προέκοπτον ἐν τῷ Ἰουδαϊσμῷ ὑπὲρ πολλοὺς συνηλικιώτας ἐν τῷ γένει μου περισσοτέρως ζηλωτὴς ὑπάρχων τῶν πατρικῶν μου παραδόσεων

Ἰουδαϊσμῷ --- JUDA-ism Judaism - KJV Jews' religion

γένει --- breed race - kindred

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

That was temporary because of the wilderness journey. …

It matters not how temporary, but forty years is quite a ways from the 8th day. In any case, they weren't circumcised on the 8th day yet were still referred to as Israel, because they were still Israel even without the circumcision.

… All of Abraham's seed were circumcised but Ishmael was his only blood relative in the community.

Sounds like a non sequitur, and also like some sort of doublespeak. You'll need to flesh that one out, or drop it.

 

[percho]

But God removed them. Only those who accept Christ are grafted back into the Church.

Umm that sounds like they do their own grafting. I'm not buying.

 

[1689Dave]

Umm that sounds like they do their own grafting. I'm not buying.

Only the grafted in will accept Christ. God does the grafting.

 

[1689Dave]

It matters not how temporary, but forty years is quite a ways from the 8th day. In any case, they weren't circumcised on the 8th day yet were still referred to as Israel, because they were still Israel even without the circumcision.
Sounds like a non sequitur, and also like some sort of doublespeak. You'll need to flesh that one out, or drop it.

It was a temporary wait because of the circumstances. What about Abraham's seed? All foreigners except for Ishmael? It's about circumcision, not blood.

 

[robycop3]

God's wrath is on anyone who rejects Christ, especially those who hate him most.

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 (KJV 1900)

But He was especially hard on the Jews because they were the earthly guardians of the Scriptures (thru the Levites) and Jesys, as a man, was a Jew and was sent to the Jews. He had Jews, especially Paul, Peter, & Philip, sent to the gentiles. And I believe it'll be less-tolerable for the Jews who go to hell, as Jesus said it'd be more tolerable for Sodom & Gomorrah than for Capernaum.

 

[robycop3]

But God removed them. Only those who accept Christ are grafted back into the Church.

No; He simply didn't graft them back in in their disbelief. They were still racial Jews.

 

[robycop3]

So are Christians.

Agreed. While a Jew can become a Christian, a non-Jew cannot become a Jew.

 

[1689Dave]

But He was especially hard on the Jews because they were the earthly guardians of the Scriptures (thru the Levites) and Jesys, as a man, was a Jew and was sent to the Jews. He had Jews, especially Paul, Peter, & Philip, sent to the gentiles. And I believe it'll be less-tolerable for the Jews who go to hell, as Jesus said it'd be more tolerable for Sodom & Gomorrah than for Capernaum.

I don't think Hitler's treatment of the Jews agrees with you.

 

[1689Dave]

Agreed. While a Jew can become a Christian, a non-Jew cannot become a Jew.

“And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king’s commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.” Esther 8:17 (KJV 1900)

 

[1689Dave]

No; He simply didn't graft them back in in their disbelief. They were still racial Jews.

Biblical Israel is believers in Christ only. God does not graft unbelievers back in.

 

[robycop3]

I don't think Hitler's treatment of the Jews agrees with you.

No, & I hope it doesn't agree with YOU!

 

[robycop3]

“And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king’s commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.” Esther 8:17 (KJV 1900)

RELIGIOUS Jews. One must be BORN a Jew to be a racial Jew.

 

[robycop3]

Biblical Israel is believers in Christ only. God does not graft unbelievers back in.

Did I say He did?
Israel WAS God's tree til the Jews rejected Jesus. And, of course, a Jew must come to Jesus same as anyone else to be grafted back onto that tree.