Doers/Fulfillers Of The Law

[kyredneck]

13 …the doers of the law shall be justified...Ro 2

20 ...by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified... Ro 3
How do you harmonize the verses?

@canadyjd:

How do you harmonize the verses?

peace to you

.....................................................

Short answer, this is apples and oranges, not a contradiction. Every heavenly born child of God is by nature a doer of the law:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

...they fulfill the law because God has put the golden rule (Matthew 7:12) in their heart:

8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

...and I'll leave off there.

 

[canadyjd]

13 …the doers of the law shall be justified...Ro 2

20 ...by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified... Ro 3
How do you harmonize the verses?

@canadyjd:

How do you harmonize the verses?

peace to you

.....................................................

Short answer, this is apples and oranges, not a contradiction. Every heavenly born child of God is by nature a doer of the law:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

...they fulfill the law because God has put the golden rule (Matthew 7:12) in their heart:

8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

...and I'll leave off there.

Romans 3:28 “for we conclude that a man is justified by faith and not by the deeds of the law”.

To understand and harmonize the two passages, it is helpful to go to Paul’s conclusion. It is clear that Paul is not arguing that mankind is justified by works so as to earn salvation or to get God’s attention to be chosen for salvation.

Romans 3:24 says man is “justified freely by His grace….” though the redemption found in Jesus Christ. As mentioned above, justified by faith.

Paul clearly states mankind is not justified by works (deeds of the law). He then clearly states mankind is justified by God’s grace faith in Jesus.

So how to understand Romans 2:13 in light of Paul’s conclusion found in Romans 3? Paul is contrasting Jews and Gentiles. To the Jew, a man is justified by doing the works of the law, one of which is circumcision. Paul is arguing that just because a man has the outward sign of circumcision, it doesn’t make him a “doer of the law” if he fails at other points. On the other hand, Gentiles, uncircumcised and without the law, can do deeds that fulfill the law, to the shame of the Jews that boast they have the law. None of which leads to salvation.

Paul will go on to say all people, Jew and Gentile, are under condemnation and the wrath of God because all sinned and have fallen short. There are none righteous, not even one.

Thanks for the comment

peace to you

 

[kyredneck]

Romans 3:28 “for we conclude that a man is justified by faith and not by the deeds of the law”.

I think you're missing the point that those in Ro 2:13 have the law written in their hearts so as to do the things of the law by their very nature. Even the 'want to' counts, their thoughts excusing or accusing them. These are Jews inwardly, circumcised hearts with the law written upon it:

29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2

47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Jn 1

 

[tyndale1946]

I think you're missing the point that those in Ro 2:13 have the law written in their hearts so as to do the things of the law by their very nature. Even the 'want to' counts, their thoughts excusing or accusing them. These are Jews inwardly, circumcised hearts with the law written upon it:

29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2

47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Jn 1

So Kentucky, strange that you brought this OP up I was just praying to the Lord for an answer, could this also tie in with Paul's comments on Romans 7?... Don't want to derail the thread, just seeking an answer... Brother Glen

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[kyredneck]

]13 …the doers of the law shall be justified...Ro 2

20 ...by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified... Ro 3
How do you harmonize the verses?

The one is in the spirit. The other is in the letter.

[add]

29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2

 

[kyredneck]

could this also tie in with Paul's comments on Romans 7?

Lol, Glen, see post #5. I think we were writing at the same time.

 

[tyndale1946]

]13 …the doers of the law shall be justified...Ro 2

20 ...by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified... Ro 3
How do you harmonize the verses?

The one is in the spirit. The other is in the letter.

Oh now I see!... That is why it wasn't in harmony!... Thanks... Brother Glen

 

[kyredneck]

Oh now I see!... That is why it wasn't in harmony!... Thanks... Brother Glen

Compare:

15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

...with:

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Ro 7

 

[tyndale1946]

Compare:

15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

...with:

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Ro 7

Yeah Kentucky and in my haste and thought I knew something I forgot this:

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Brother Glen

 

[kyredneck]

Yeah Kentucky and in my haste and thought I knew something I forgot this:

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Brother Glen

Lol, you read my mind. The letter of the law kills, the spirit gives life. Amen!

 

[tyndale1946]

Lol, you read my mind. The letter of the law kills, the spirit gives life. Amen!

Maybe two Prims bantering back and forth will keep this OP peaceful... I can live with that!... Brother Glen

 

[Van]

Romans 2:13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified (NASB)

The first question to ask is what Law or what part of the Law? The Law says we are to love God with all our heart, soul and strength. (Deut. 6:5) Is that the Law that we must do?

John 6:29 Jesus replied, "This is the deed God requires - to believe in the one whom he sent." (NET)

Can we love God if we do not believe in His Son? Food for thought...

 

[canadyjd]

I think you're missing the point that those in Ro 2:13 have the law written in their hearts so as to do the things of the law by their very nature. Even the 'want to' counts, their thoughts excusing or accusing them. These are Jews inwardly, circumcised hearts with the law written upon it:

29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2

47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Jn 1

I disagree. Whatever else Paul is teaching in Romans 2, he is certainly laying a foundation for his conclusion in Romans 3 that none are righteous, all stand condemned and under the wrath of God and justification is by grace through faith and not by works of the law.

To the extent Gentiles (or Jews) do the deeds of the law based on their conscience, it is incomplete and falls short of God’s requirements. They are still condemned and can only be justified by grace through faith.

That is the very point Paul is making in these passages. Any belief that anyone can be justified apart from grace through faith is contrary to the context.

peace to you

 

[AustinC]

"In stating that “doers of the law … will be justified,” the Apostle attacks any notion of Jewish privilege that says birth into Judaism ensures that one will be safe on judgment day. Paul continues this argument in Romans 2:14–16, telling the Jews that mere access to the Lord’s standards does not set them apart from the Gentiles. Even pagans know enough of our Creator’s requirements to do what He requires (v. 14). By this, they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts (v. 15). The Apostle speaks here of the innate sense of right and wrong implanted in every conscience. Dr. R.C. Sproul writes in his commentary on Romans: “Before we ever took a breath, God planted in our soul an immediate knowledge and awareness of himself. This revelation is given apart from our reading the Bible or looking at nature.” Human beings do not need Scripture for a basic knowledge of good and evil. Because we are fallen, we need to train our consciences by the Word of God in order to discern with clarity what is pleasing to the Lord (Eph. 5:10), but even the most depraved of sinners has a sense of what God demands. What is more, sinners even do things that we can call good in some sense, though not what is fully good according to the exacting demands of God’s law."
The Work of the Law on the Heart

 

[kyredneck]

I disagree. Whatever else Paul is teaching in Romans 2, he is certainly laying a foundation for his conclusion in Romans 3 that none are righteous, all stand condemned and under the wrath of God and justification is by grace through faith and not by works of the law.

It's by His grace that His children are given the heart change to do 'by nature' the things of the law, in the spirit, not in the letter. Romans 2:29

To the extent Gentiles (or Jews) do the deeds of the law based on their conscience

15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience bearing witness with me in the Holy Spirit, Ro 9

It's an interesting topic to peruse in the scriptures, the conscience of a Christian.

it is incomplete and falls short of God’s requirements.

They're performing good works because God has wrought within. Like I said, you're missing the point.

They are still condemned and can only be justified by grace through faith.

So you say, it sounds as if you're dictating what God can and can't do.

If you're getting jammed up over 'the doers of the law shall be justified' v 13, what is your response to the man who is rendered eternal life in vv 5-7 on account of his 'patience in well-doing'?

Or 'glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good' in v 10?

That is the very point Paul is making in these passages. Any belief that anyone can be justified apart from grace through faith is contrary to the context.

They're performing good works because God has wrought within. Like I said, you're missing the point.

 

[kyredneck]

@canadyjd By Paul's standard, have you fulfilled the law?

 

[canadyjd]

If you're getting jammed up over 'the doers of the law shall be justified' v 13, what is your response to the man who is rendered eternal life in vv 5-7 on account of his 'patience in well-doing'?….

My Bible says they are seeking immortality, eternal life not that they have obtained (rendered) eternal life.

Please tell me which version states they have been “rendered eternal life” in vv 5-7, by striving for eternal life according to their patience in well doing.

peace to you

 

[kyredneck]

My Bible says they are seeking immortality, eternal life not that they have obtained (rendered) eternal life.

Please tell me which version states they have been “rendered eternal life” in vv 5-7, by striving for eternal life according to their patience in well doing.

peace to you

5 but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 who will render to every man according to his works:
7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:
8 but unto them that are factious, and obey not the truth, but obey unrighteousness, shall be wrath and indignation,
9 tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek;
10 but glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek:
11 for there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law;
13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro2 ASV

By Paul's standard, have you fulfilled the law?

 

[canadyjd]

There’s the comma. I see it now. Thanks

I will stand by my original statement. Whatever Paul is teaching in these verses, he is not going to contradict his conclusion (not mine) in chapter 3, that all people are condemned and are under the wrath of God and justification is by grace through faith

Perhaps the Apostle Peter was thinking of these verses when he stated Paul’s writings, while scripture, were difficult to understand.

peace to you

 

[kyredneck]

@canadyjd By Paul's standard, have you fulfilled the law?