Featured The Sovereignty of God in the life of Joseph

In whom we also have obtained an inheritance,
being predestined according to the purpose of
him who worketh
all things
after the counsel of his own will:
That we
should be to the praise of his glory,...
Ephesians 1:11-12a

 

You did a good job of comparing God's sovereignty and human responsibility. Joseph fulfilled the role that God predestined for him, but Joseph also acted freely. Could Joseph have chosen differently and, therefore, thwarted God's plan? No. However, Joseph was not a human wind up toy.

The relationship between God's sovereignty and human responsibility is easier to see when we look at the past. We can clearly see how God used Joseph to bring about the immediate preservation of Israel, as well as the Messianic line. It is harder to see this relationship in current events. As we live our lives our myopia often prevents us from seeing God directing our path for His purpose. We like to think that we are in charge. The truth is that we are anything but in charge. Graciously, God directs our path, but does so in such a way in which we are responsible for our own actions. We have the joy that comes with obedience to His word, but also the consequences that are the result of sin.

 

Martin, thanks for your instructive post.
Once the truth is seen here,others will perhaps see the same lessons spread out throughout scripture

 

25 who by the Holy Spirit, by the mouth of our father David thy servant, didst say, Why did the Gentiles rage, And the peoples imagine vain things?
26 The kings of the earth set themselves in array, And the rulers were gathered together, Against the Lord, and against his Anointed:
27 for of a truth in this city against thy holy Servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together,
28 to do whatsoever thy hand and thy council foreordained to come to pass. Acts 4

 

Could Joseph have chosen differently and, therefore, thwarted God's plan? No. However, Joseph was not a human wind up toy.

Do you not see the contradiction here? How is it possible for Joseph to act freely?

If you do not have the option to chose otherwise/differently then you can not act freely.

 

Don't forget the balance of the sentence.

Eph 1:12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Context Context Context.

 

No contradiction. We make our own choices and are responsible for those choices. The part none of us know is how God causes His sovereignty and human responsibility to work together. The person who comes down on the side of free will faces the same conundrum. If you say that Joseph could have thwarted God's plan, then God really is not sovereign. Both sides are forced to admit that there is a degree of mystery involved. That used to bother me until I dwelt on God's words through Isaiah the prophet. "My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor or your ways My ways" (Isaiah 55:8). Paul would later write in 1 Corinthians 13:12, "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully, just as I also have been fully known." We take what God has clearly revealed in His word and trust in that. The rest? We go back to what we do know and then accept the rest by faith. For example, we know God's will of decree cannot be changed by man. Even when we read about God changing His mind, that is according to human understanding. God never changes (Malachi 3:6). So, since we know God is immutable and no plan of His can be stopped, delayed, or altered by man; we must accept that God allows human choice to exist within the greater sphere of that plan. Since no one can adequately dissect the two (God's sovereignty and man's responsibility), we are forced to accept what we do not know based on what we do know.

Will this change your mind? No. Of course not. Is my explanation satisfactory to you? I suppose the answer to that is no as well. But to quote the great unknown American, James Cashman, "It is what it is."

 

“God has decreed in Himself [decided by Himself] from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things that shall ever come to pass [Nothing forced Him in the making of any of His plans, and all His intentions will be carried out without the slightest alteration]
Isa_46:10; Eph_1:11; Heb_6:17; Rom_9:15, Rom_9:18.

Martin as I have said the problem is not with scripture it is with the LBCF. I have always said that God has a plan for the redemption of man and we can see this plan from Genesis 1:1 thru Revelation 22:21. The LBCF states that God has decreed...of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things that shall ever come to pass. This does not leave anything out, everything that happens is decreed by God.


++++
– yet in such a way that God is neither the author of sin nor does He have fellowship [mutual responsibility] with any in the committing of sins, nor is violence offered to the will of the creature [no one is made to sin], nor yet is the liberty of contingency of second causes taken away [i.e. nor is the free working of the law of cause and effect interfered with] but rather established.
Jas_1:13-15; 1Jn_1:5; Act_4:27-28; Joh_19:11.

If God has decreed all things that come to pass {see above} then the LBCF can not turn around and say that He did not decree it. While I do agree God is not the author of sin, as scripture shows, it is the LBCF that places that title on Him and this to their shame.

Now as to saying that God avoids responsibility for sin because of the contingency of second causes. That argument does not stand up to biblical standards. We see in 2Sa where King David had ordered the death of his servant, Uriah, {2Sa 11:15} as a first cause, but the act was carried out by second causes, being General Joab and the Philistines. So David did not do the deed, yet God held him culpable. {2Sa 12:9} Now the question is, are we to be held to a higher standard than God? If God is sovereign in the way Calvinists contend {divine determinism} then Calvinists have made Him accountable for all sin. If as the LBCF states God has decreed ...of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things that shall ever come to pass then this is a hook that you can not get yourself off of.

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--In all this God’s wisdom is displayed, disposing all things [ordering the course of events] and also His power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree” [God’s faithfulness here means His unswerving conformity to His holy character and His revealed word]
Num_23:19; Eph_1:3-5.
[Bible proof texts in the original]

I agree completely that God does not lie and that He will accomplish His plan for His creation. Since as you know Eph 1:3-14 is one sentence in Greek we would be remiss if we did not look at the complete sentence. While the beginning of the sentence tells us that we are chosen in Christ Jesus the end tells us how and why, we hear the gospel and then believe the gospel then we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. {cf Rom 10:12-15}

God planned to redeem fallen mankind {Gen_3:15}. He called and chose Abraham to choose all humans {Gen_12:3; Exo_19:5-6}. He calls all sinners {1Ti 1:15} to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus {Joh_3:16; 1Ti_2:4; 2Pe_3:9; 1Jn_2:2; 1Jn_4:14}. God Himself predestinated to eternal life all persons who would freely exercise faith in Christ Jesus. The believers' choice of trusting in Christ Jesus confirms, not determines, God's choice of them.

 

Martin you said “I would now like to investigate God’s sovereignty in the life of Joseph. I have chosen this part of the Bible because it is an extended narrative where I believe God’s absolute control of events may be plainly seen.” Then we see the terms perfectly freely X 2; free will X 3; Potiphar decided X 1; freely chose X 1; freely decides X 1; and we must not forget Mrs Potiphar had a roving eye. While I do not disagree that Gods plan will be brought to completion as He has planned. You state that God has absolute control of events but this does not leave room for the idea of anyone making any decisions. There is a big difference between being in control and controlling.

Calvinists have redefined the meaning of the word sovereignty as “divine determinism”. The belief that God determines, causes, and orchestrates everything in history according to His preconceived plan. Logically that has to include sin and evil.

Now I can look at the same story of Joseph and see God as sovereign and that all the players therein had free will. For me there is no contradiction because God is indeed sovereign and as such has given man a freed will.

 

Define how "free" man's will is when in competition with God's will. In a fight, which beings will would win out? If, for some reason, God determines to do something, does man have the power to stop God from doing what God determines to do?

 

Text, text, text.

him who worketh
all things
after the counsel of his own will:

 

Just throwing out random words does not add anything to the discussion.

At the least quote the whole sentence.

Eph 1:11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
Eph 1:12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

context matters

 

all things

 

The context does not support free will... especially when you add the next verse.

 

The fact that He's actually close and not far away, and we're immersed in Him, helps me to understand it a little, maybe...

27 that they should seek God, if haply they might feel after him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us:
28 for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain even of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Acts 17

 

Fully agree, we are responsible for the choices we make because we have a free will which our sovereign God gave us. Is God sovereign, most assuredly. Does God have a plan that He is working out for His creation? YES Can anything stop that plan? NO

We first see a glimpse of Gods’ plan in Gen 3:15 and it carries on through the OT up to Christ Jesus and His crucifixion that paid humanities sin debt. He was raised the third day for our salvation. Salvation is available to all that will freely place their faith in our risen saviour, Christ Jesus. His plan carries on through Revelation to the end of the age when all will be judged. Some to glory some to perdition.

When you write "We make our own choices and are responsible for those choices." you are agreeing that man has a free will but the LBCF and Calvinist teaching, that you seem to hold to, say we do not. For Calvinists, God has to control all things via divine determinism.

"God is incapable of knowing an undetermined future, and therefore, for God to be omniscient and all-knowing, no future could be left undetermined, or better yet, unscripted." (James White, Debating Calvinism, p.163)

Theologically blotting out the human free will eventually silences any appeal for sinners to take seriously Christ’s “Come unto Me, all. . .” {Mat_11:28}. As far as lost humanity is concerned, the God they would like to meet is not a Deity of limited love depicted in Calvinism or the LBCF, but the God of “whosoever will” heard in the voices of the Holy Spirit and Christ’s Bride, the Church {Rev_22:17}.

I can tell anyone that God loves them and will save them if they will put their trust in Christ Jesus. As a Calvinist you can not do that in all honesty as that person my not be one of your so call elect. Calvinists must obscure there true view of salvation with coded words and or miss quoted scripture.

Speaking for myself, I do not had a problem with Gods' sovereignty and mans' free will. All through the bible we find that man has to make the choice for God or to reject God. The choices man makes will not thwart the will of God or derail His plan for His creation.

One point that I strongly disagree with you on is your view "God's will of decree". The LBCF is, to be blunt, God dishonouring. They have taken the character of God and thrown it in the mud.

How you can equate God who is the standard for love {1Jn 4:8; 16} with the god that is portrayed in the LBCF is frankly beyond me. The LBCF portrays a god that decrees that vastly more people are condemn to hell for his glory than are saved through the death of his son on the cross. Do you not see a problem here? The bible shows us a God of Love and Mercy this is not what we find in the LBCF or Calvinism.

LBCF

CHAPTER 3; OF GOD’S DECREE

Paragraph 4. These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.

And to quote you “Will this change your mind? No. Of course not. Is my explanation satisfactory to you? I suppose the answer to that is no as well.”

We will continue to disagree while we strive to comprehend God and the plan He has for His creation.

 

I am a little apprehensive when some Calvinists go too far when it comes to God's sovereignty. I believe that Calvinism and compatibilism can co-exist.