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Featured Doers/Fulfillers Of The Law

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by kyredneck, Jul 3, 2021.

  1. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    What does this question have to do with the OP?
     
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  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    None can be justified by any good works they can do!
     
  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son upon the altar?
    22 Thou seest that faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect;
    23 and the scripture was fulfilled which saith, And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness; and he was called the friend of God.
    24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

    5 but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
    6 who will render to every man according to his works:
    7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:
    10 but glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek:
    13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    James point here is that real saving faith will be shown by good works as fruit of one having already been saved!
    You again are following Rome on this issue!
     
  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Works are the very definer of the 'just' and the 'unjust':

    15 having hope toward God, which these also themselves look for, that there shall be a resurrection both of the just and unjust. Acts 24:15

    28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice,
    29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. Jn 5
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    IF one has not received Jesus thru faith as their God, all of their good works get them still into Hell!
     
  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    The 'works' to which James is referring:

    27 Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. Ja 1
    15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food,
    16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? Ja 2

    The just:

    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    35 for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in;
    36 naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

    The unjust:

    41
    Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
    42 for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink;
    43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Mt 25

    Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith.
     
    #67 kyredneck, Jul 9, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    You've got not one iota of scripture that supports that, you're just spouting off as usual. What sort of 'Calvinist' are you? It's regeneration BEFORE faith, remember? Have you forgotten your script?

    Like many examples we're given in the scriptures, God first wrought within, then comes the conversion. Works are acceptable to God before 'coming to Jesus' because God has already wrought within them, i.e., God is the source of the works.

    20 for every one who is doing wicked things hateth the light, and doth not come unto the light, that his works may not be detected;
    21 but he who is doing the truth doth come to the light, that his works may be manifested, that in God they are having been wrought.`Jn 3 YLT

    Nicodemus was drawn to the light that night because God had wrought within him already. He was 'born from above' BEFORE becoming a 'secret disciple' or entering the kingdom.
     
    #68 kyredneck, Jul 10, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2021
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  9. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Kentucky... I thought you would like this comparison... It is called cause and effect!... Here is medical explanation... If you go to the doctor with a fever, a fever is a symptom but it is not the cause, the effect of something cannot also be the cause... Now to apply this to the spiritual rhelm to have faith in God cannot be the cause and the effect... The cause must be the new birth (regeneration) then comes faith, the effect... There were many times in the lives of the biblical saints where they showed faith in God but also there were many places that they didn't... Abraham is a good example... So was Abraham not saved eternally because he didn't show faith?... What about others in scripture who failed to show faith?... What about the apostles?... I'm a regenerated man but my faith is OF Christ who saved me, my working faith is willy nilly at best... The faith that saved eternally any of Gods grace sought, blood bought, children of God, The Holy Spirit birthed them before faith entered the picture... We are not saved eternally by any thing we do but its ALL the works of God, by his Son Jesus Christ... Brother Glen:)

    Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

    3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

    3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

    3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
     
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  10. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Before I forget it Kentucky... Here is another one that goes right with it, together I call them bookends... Brother Glen:)

    Romans 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

    9:2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

    9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

    9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

    9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

    9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

    9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

    9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
     
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    splendid
     
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    The “he is a Jew who is one inwardly” motif that Paul has constructed in chapter 2 leads into the question of Ro 3:1 and concludes in Ro 9:

    If , because God is no respecter of persons, Jew and non-Jew alike are to be judged by their works with or without the law; – vv 5-13

    And if non-Jews that don’t have the law can do by nature the things of the law because the law has been written in their hearts (synonymous with the circumcision of heart in v 29); vv 14-15

    And if Jews that have the law and glory in it have through their transgression of it caused the name of God to be blasphemed among the non-Jews; vv 17-24

    And if the Jews’ circumcision becomes uncircumcision if they transgress the law; v 25

    And if non-Jews fulfill the law their uncircumcision becomes circumcision and they will judge the Jews; vv 26-27

    And if Jews outwardly, circumcised in the flesh by the letter are not the real Jews; v 28

    And if real Jews are those inwardly circumcised in heart in the spirit, not the letter; v 29

    Then:

    1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what is the profit of circumcision?

    Paul begins his answer here:

    2 Much every way: first of all, that they were intrusted with the oracles of God.

    And comes back to it here:

    3 For I could wish that I myself were anathema from Christ for my brethren`s sake, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
    4 who are Israelites; whose is the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
    5 whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Ro 9

    But:

    6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel:
    7 neither, because they are Abraham`s seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
    8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed. Ro 9

    Reiterating the “he is a Jew who is one inwardly” motif of chapter 2.
     
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  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Good works done determine eternal rewards or lack of them, NOTHING to do with justification!
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    One must be born again to be part of the Kingdom....
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Law ONLY condemns us, no salvation found for us it in, as NONE save Jesus can keep it as Gid demands!
     
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ???

    ....God; who will render to every man according to his works:...patience in well-doing...eternal life: Ro 2:5-7

    ... inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for... ye gave me to eat...ye gave me drink...ye took me in...ye clothed me;...ye visited me...ye came unto me. Mt 25:34-36
     
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Enough of your silliness and spouting off. You trash up threads with your monotonous quips. I've made it abundantly clear the regenerate are the ones that are doers/fulfillers of the law several times over on this thread.

    You're on IGNORE.
     
  18. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Kentucky... Don't put me on ignore but I have question and maybe this will add to the discussion... I'm here to learn and haven't really studied the situation but maybe I can get a little enlightenment on the subject... I hope this isn't a dumb question?... Why did Paul withstand Peter to the face?... You know I always post scripture... Brother Glen:)

    Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

    2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

    2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

    2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

    2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,

    2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

    2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

    2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

    2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
     
  19. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    "....before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision."

    Fickleness, I guess. What do you think?
     
  20. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    I guess I got that confused with Paul's statement in Corinthians?... Peter couldn't pull a Paul... Brother Glen:)

    1 Corinthians 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

    9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

    9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

    9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

    9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
     
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