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Featured Apostles, prophets and manifestations of the Holy Spirit

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Baptist Believer, Jun 19, 2021.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    None though have sign gifts nor revelations from the lord!
     
    #141 Yeshua1, Jul 14, 2021
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Really? I was directly called of God the Holy Spirit to be a missionary. And I was not sent by my mission board but through my board and from my local church. This dovetails very nicely with the story of Barnabas and Saul, sent by their local church and the Holy Spirit in Acts 13:1-4,

    1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. {which...: or, Herod's foster brother}
    2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
    3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.
    4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.
     
    #142 John of Japan, Jul 14, 2021
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  3. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    We have modern apostles, as we have discussed AT LENGTH. You claimed recently (IN THIS VERY DISCUSSION) that you believed this. Were you lying or is do you change your mind with every breeze of opinion that blows by. Or perhaps, as I suspect, you have a weird and compulsive need to argue against anything I say.

    (1) You are making no distinction between "The Twelve" and regular apostles.
    (2) Your assertion that only apostles had "sign gifts" has been refuted several times in this very thread.
    (3) Your assertion that all apostles (and only apostles) wrote inspired scriptures is patently false, as has been refuted on this thread by two of us. (Perhaps you believe the so-called Gospel of Thomas is scripture, since we don't know of anything that Thomas wrote?)

    Seriously, do you have trouble forming long term memories?* You claim to read all of my posts, but you don't retain anything. We have just been through all this and you agreed with John of Japan on these issues.

    *This is a serious question, not an insult (I don't do insults). I suffered from the inability to form long-term memories between 2012-2014 because of Cushing's Disease.

    You are describing the difference between "The Twelve" and regular apostles. We have been through this a couple of times.

    It is quite clear that you have not read anything I've written about this IN THIS VERY THREAD:

    In my understanding of the manifestation gifts (aka "sign gifts"), they are acts of God working through whoever is available for whoever has a need -- based on the will of God for that situation. Therefore, all Christians potentially can be a vessel to heal others, but no one has "the gift of healing." A person cannot choose to make healing happen outside of the will of God for the moment.

    You are confusing manifestations (“sign gifts”) of the Holy Spirit with an office. Gifts are given to all, while some are called into special roles (“offices”). In regard to the manifestations of the Holy Spirit, I believe these are different from “spiritual gifts” given elsewhere as a mode of service. Manifestations are enablings given, as needed, to believers in ministry activities.

    If you paid attention to what I wrote about the manifestations of the Spirit (sign gifts), you would see that they are not controlled by the person through whom they are exercised. They are simply extraordinary works of God through His people, according to His will. That is a completely different thing from faith healers and the nuts on TV.​

    Your inability/unwillingness to receive, process, and apply new information makes discussion with you useless.

    You simply demand that others accept your opinion as Pope of Baptists.
     
    #143 Baptist Believer, Jul 14, 2021
  4. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Wow! How arrogant of you to claim that missionaries are not called of God.
     
    #144 Baptist Believer, Jul 14, 2021
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 16:19, ". . . And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: . . ."
    How do you understand those keys to be?
     
    #145 37818, Jul 14, 2021
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I believe it refers to Peter as being the one to first give the Gospel to both the Jews (Acts 2) and the Gentiles (Acts 10).

    As I'm sure you realized, the "thee" you have underlined is singular in the Greek (σοι) so it can only refer to Peter. Thus, it had to be doors that only Peter should open: the doors for the Gospel to both the Jews and Gentiles.
     
    #146 John of Japan, Jul 14, 2021
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So you would agree that no modern day Prophets or Apostles in the 12 Apostles sense of the term?
     
    #147 Yeshua1, Jul 14, 2021
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    It's 'pretty basic exegesis' to include Matthew 18.

    1 Paul, an apostle (not from men, neither through man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead), Gal 1

    Paul had enough 'authority' to turn evildoers over to Satan for discipline:

    19 holding faith and a good conscience; which some having thrust from them made shipwreck concerning the faith:
    20 of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I delivered unto Satan, that they might be taught not to blaspheme. 1 Tim 1

    5 to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 Cor 5

    ...and I wouldn't be surprised to find that Barnabas and Nathaniel are the same person.

    Apostles have authority from God. Missionaries have authority from their respective boards of men.

    I've made an honest living from the work of my hands, and there's a lot of your exegesis in the past that I've found inadequate.

    Yeah, right.
     
    #148 kyredneck, Jul 14, 2021
  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Merely making the same distinction as Paul:

    1 Paul, an apostle (not from men, neither through man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead), Gal 1

    I said nothing about being 'called of God'.
     
    #149 kyredneck, Jul 14, 2021
  10. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Since I have been hammering that there is a distinction between The Twelve and regular apostles (like Paul and Barnabas) for weeks, I still hold to that position. Have you decided to join us?

    Regarding prophets, I have no idea why you are capitalizing the word. There have been male and female prophets, at least, since the day of Moses. I am primarily gifts as a prophet, so I obviously agree that they exist today. (And no, I don't make predictions.)
     
    #150 Baptist Believer, Jul 14, 2021
  11. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    All believers have this authority.

    If missionaries do not have authority from God, they should go sell insurance and forget carrying the message of the gospel anywhere.

    ALL believers have authority from God. It is on the basis of that authority that we share the gospel with power and conviction.

    Every time I hear someone say that they "make an honest living" and criticize someone else, I think that they (1) feel inadequate; (2) don't understand that their own work, well done, gives glory to God and must not be diminished; (3) imply that the person they are comparing themselves to is somehow making a 'dishonest' living and is not as honorable as themselves.

    The comment is unfair to both you and John of Japan.
     
    #151 Baptist Believer, Jul 14, 2021
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  12. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    What in Matt. 18? I see no connection.



    I was a God-called missionary "not from men, neither through man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the Father." You cannot take my missionary call from me.

    And your point is?

    And your proof is?

    Completely and totally wrong. God called me. My board simply helped me get to the field.

    Again, look at Acts 13. God called Paul and Barnabas, and their church and the Holy Spirit sent them out. God called me, and my church and the Holy Spirit sent me out, not my mission board.

    Fair enough--but when did I mention your career??
     
    #152 John of Japan, Jul 14, 2021
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  13. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Paul is making the point that he is not jumping on the bandwagon, but was ALSO called of God. He is not criticizing anyone else.
     
    #153 Baptist Believer, Jul 14, 2021
  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    John I am all for missions and church planters they are front and center and working in the vineyard.
    I will offer a biblical response later if I have an opportunity and clarify why I hold to Apostolic Uniqueness.
    All Christian's are sent ones in a secondary sense...but not Apostles at all.
    The sent ones today....have the Apostles as foundational in scripture.
    The signs of THE APOSTLES are right in scripture for us to read and communicate to new believers.
    I will make a case for it and welcome any biblical correction.
     
    #154 Iconoclast, Jul 14, 2021
  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Okey dokey.
     
    #155 John of Japan, Jul 14, 2021
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  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I have read the thread but stayed out because when y1 tweets without scriptures I feel less inclined to jump in.
    I hope to offer a biblical case in response...need to be on my laptop...my phone keyboard is small or my hands are large.
    I will offer on it and you and John can critic it.
     
    #156 Iconoclast, Jul 14, 2021
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  17. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    I completely understand.

    I'm looking forward to it. Thanks.
     
    #157 Baptist Believer, Jul 14, 2021
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  18. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    I have a question if two missionaries of two different beliefs, (because there are missionaries of all beliefs) meet in the same area to evangelize, what do you do?... Are you both there to help the people of the culture or are you there it persuade them to believe as you believe?... As I heard a preacher way back in the day say... Don't get me wrong sermons are beneficial and helpful to Gods people but I would rather see a sermon walking than hear one... Are you a walking sermon?... I feel and this and this is the way I see it, I can walk a man to God quicker than I can talk a man to God... What can your God do for me?... The same as he has done for me!... Lead by example, just as Jesus did, who was a walking example... That to me brethren is a true missionary... Brother Glen:)
     
    #158 tyndale1946, Jul 14, 2021
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  19. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 5:50 PM Pacific.
     
    #159 Squire Robertsson, Jul 14, 2021
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No prophets today as they were in the OT....
     
    #160 Yeshua1, Jul 14, 2021
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