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Calling All Open-Minded Reformed/Calvinist

SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
Does he love those who are under his wrath? The Bible does not teach God loves every individual equally.
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before you and I were saved, we were under the wrath of God. The fact that He saved us, shows that He must have loved us, "while we were yet sinners"! :Wink
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
Yes, loves the elect. What about those who never come out of His wrath?
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John 3:36

"He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him"

If the sinner does not believe, then they cannot be saved, and God's Just wrath remains on them. It is up to their belief or unbelief, and nothing to do with them not being elected!
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
John 3:36

"He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him"

If the sinner does not believe, then they cannot be saved, and God's Just wrath remains on them. It is up to their belief or unbelief, and nothing to do with them not being elected!
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And you come to that theological determination by one verse out of context?
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
John 3:36

"He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him"

If the sinner does not believe, then they cannot be saved, and God's Just wrath remains on them. It is up to their belief or unbelief, and nothing to do with them not being elected!
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However, Jesus does teach election.

John 10:25-29 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
However, Jesus does teach election.

John 10:25-29 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
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Yes but we have to look at what the whole Bible teaches and not just select verses
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Yes but we have to look at what the whole Bible teaches and not just select verses
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LOL, you are entirely correct. In one of these threads I went through all the verses Silverhair quoted and showed the particular nature of God's saving grace to those whom he chooses. I have pointed you to read Romans 1 - 11 in its entirety so you can see the whole counsel of God as Paul writes the gospel of justification by faith alone to these saints.
sbg, I absolutely agree that we must take the whole council of God from Genesis to Revelation and see how God saves his elect by grace through faith.
You are on the right path. Read all of scripture and let the whole council define the sentences that seem to contradict. That being said, you cannot ignore John 6, John 10 and John 17 where Jesus tells us about the particular nature of his love and his ministry. Let this whole teach you regarding the sentence you cling to.
 
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