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Each Eschatological view.

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by 37818, Nov 21, 2021.

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  1. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I believe this passage is about our resurrected bodies. I think the audience relevance depends a lot on the overall context. On another note, I believe Christ did "return" in judgment of Jerusalem in AD 70.
     
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  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The pre trib view held the wrath of God was the tribulation. 1 Thessalonians 1:10, "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."
    Now with the understanding that appearing of Christ happens after the tribulation, Matthew 24:29-31 and God's wrath after that event, Revelation 6:12-17. It all comes together. Everything fits. By lining up the common events. Only one the last trumpet. Only one first resurrection. Only one second appearing of Christ.
     
    #102 37818, Nov 23, 2021
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  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    @Lodic,
    I am of the persuasion that Matthew 24:1-2 is Jesus prophecy which was fulfilled in 70AD. And a fulfilment of Daniel 9:26. What the Disciples asked Jesus, He only answers about His second appearing. Nothing more about what He had said in Matthew 24:1-2. This being my firm understanding.
     
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  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    @Lodic,
    One item I didn't mention. Has to do with the only one second apprearing. That as the man Jesus, as He died for our sins once for all, He entered Heaven once for all, Hebrews 9:12, to be mediator, Hebrews 9:24, until He comes in His second appearing, Hebrews 9:28, when we will be like Him, 1John 3:2 and from then on be with Him, 1 Thessalonians 4:17.
     
  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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  6. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    It's simple-THE PROPHESIED EVENTS DIDN'T OCCUR IN THAT GENERATION !
     
  7. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    We are in agreement there. Although He "came in judgment" in AD 70, Jesus didn't literally come to Jerusalem.
     
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  8. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't explain why Jesus said "this generation" if He really meant "that generation". The simple truth is that those events did come to pass in that generation. As Forrest Gump would say, "that's all I got to say about that".
     
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  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Bear in mind, I am looking at, Acts 1:11, ". . . this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. . . ." When Matthew 24:30, ". . . then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds . . . ." And not as any kind of hyperbola.
     
  10. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.[Revelation 20:1-3]


    So, we see a lot of figurative language used. Satan depicted as a dragon. Is he literally a dragon? No, of course not. Was he literally wrapped in chains. No. So why take the 1,000 years literal?


    How about this verse?


    Know therefore that the Lord your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments;[Deuteronomy 7:9]

    Is God faithful to a literal 1,000th generation? He could be, and if He is, then the world will be anywhere from 25,000 to 40,000 years old, seeing that a biblical generation was somewhere between 25 and 40 years. I’ve heard both so I don’t know which one is correct, but I think 40 to be the correct one, seeing Israel was in the wilderness for 40 years after leaving Egypt and entering into the Promised Land.
     
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  11. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Matthew 24:29-31 happened in AD 70. Nowhere in the Olivet Discourse does it not refer to “this generation”. Just as Jesus said “who do I compare this generation to?” He was not talking about a future generation there, either, but that generation at that time.
     
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  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Even even if one understands the number as a figure of speech, ". . . Satan . . . that he should deceive the nations no more, . . ." Has never yet happened. To claim some hyperbola language is to throw 1 John 3:8 into the trash along with all of Christianity with it.
     
  13. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Another huge problem for Premillennialists is flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom. So when Satan is loosed at the end of the 1000 years, he has only glorified saints to rally as Gog and Magog against the rest of the glorified saints.
     
  14. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    But that’s not my point. My point is that if 1,000 is literal in regards to years in Revelation 20:1-3, then the 1,000th generation would have to be literal as well. Then God doesn’t own the cattle in the 1,001st + hills, too.
     
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  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    One, I cannot believe Matthew 24:29-31 had yet happened, let alone that is refers to Matthew 24:1-2 as you suppose.
    Secondly, what Jesus said in Matthew 11:16 has nothing to do with Matthew 24:34.
     
  16. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    MY evidence is obvious-THE EVENTS HAVEN'T HAPPENED YET.

    Nupe! Israel is not "all the tribes of the earth", just a small part of them.


    Your digging hit a boulder called "the preterist myth".


    PROOF, please?

    Because it'll be received on the right hand or forehead.

    Your "proof" is ethereal, The BIGGEST proofs I have is that the earth is still going right on as it did in 65 AD, & 71 AD. And, the fact that if the trib has already occurred, Jesus is WAY overdue! You know what He said in Matt. 24, and He has NOT yet fulfilled His prophecy of His own return, IN GREAT POWER & GLORY, SEEN BY ALL, EVEN THOSE WHO PIERCED HIM! If He'd come & been seen by all, the Chinese, Japanese, Scythians, Germans, Gauls, Celts, Picts, etc. woulda mentioned it. And he said NOTHING about TWO returns.

    I suggest you toss the trash you've been reading from Preston, Gentry, etc. & stick to what GOD had men write, and to works of history. Those pret authors are like Hal Lindsey-just out to make a buck.
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    In regards to Revelation 20:2-7 I believe you are in error here. Apples and oranges.
     
  18. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    How is 1,000 a literal 1,000 in one place but not a 1,000 in another place?
     
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    He didn't come at all then, except Spiritually, where two or more were gathered in His name, as He said, & as He does today.
    No, they didn't. There's no evidence whatsoever saying they did.
     
  20. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    You will not find Jesus changing course in that sermon. Even after vss 29-31, He said ”Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.”[Matthew 24:34]

    Look at Ezekiel 5. I read that last evening, btw. Ezekiel shaves his beard and divides it. He then shows Jerusalem’s impending desolation by using that divided beard. It was to happen soon, not millennia later.

    Fast forward to Matthew 24 and the Olivet Discourse. He is telling them, “this generation” not a “this generation” millennia later, of their impending doom, which happened in AD 70. It would be fruitless to tell them of a doom happening millennia later. It would be like God showing me your place where you live at(He doesn’t do this, but I’m proving my point here) and that 3,000 years later it’s nuked. I then warn you of that happening. Why warn about this when you’ll be long gone? Same with the Olivet Discourse. He was telling them, “this generation” about the impending doom to occur in AD 70.
     
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