Understanding The Protestant /Catholic Divide

What Catholics teach and what people say Catholics teach are two different things.

What Catholics teach:

Council of Trent

Canon 1.
If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law,[110] without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.

Canon 2.
If anyone says that divine grace through Christ Jesus is given for this only, that man may be able more easily to live justly and to merit eternal life, as if by free will without grace he is able to do both, though with hardship and difficulty, let him be anathema.

Canon 3.
If anyone says that without the predisposing inspiration of the Holy Ghost[111] and without His help, man can believe, hope, love or be repentant as he ought,[112] so that the grace of justification may be bestowed upon him, let him be anathema.

Its easy to put words in other peoples mouths and say well......They never taught the above and believe their works save them.

I don't see how anyone read the above and conclude.....gee they think their good works earn salvation, when it clearly states if anyone believes they save themselves are in the wrong.

Or even find one catholic who says he saves himself.


All good works fall into the category of LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR. Love God and Neighbor is the highest priority rather than salvation.

Scripture states MULTIPLE TIMES Faith WITHOUT LOVE (the only good work) is worthless. Not only faith scripture raises the stakes says complete knowledge. That is beyond trusting God that is flat out knowing the truth. TRUST GOD loves me VS KNOW God loves me.

1 Corinthians 13

2If I have the gift of prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

If anyone can tell me what reward or prize is GREATER than Loving God i'd like to hear it.

If anyone said Faith working through love, or that their Faith has LOVE of GOD in it, that would be a pass. That sounds great.

Devoid of LOVE of God? I would accept proof of even personal testimony of how much a person HATED GOD right after they were saved. Show me the guy who is saved WITHOUT the GOOD WORK of loving God.

God's motive for saving a person is that they are a sinner.

 

You can have faith enough to move mountains, but if you don’t do the works of Love, then how can you be saved?

Faith without works is dead, because faith without Love is dead.

You must believe in Faith and do the works of Love, Love is works.

This is why I warn people who hold to faith alone, because Jesus Judges people by their works or lack of works in Scripture.

“ When I was hungry, you gave me nothing to eat “

Three things remain, Faith, Hope and Love, the greatest of these is Love.

There’s no salvation without the works of Love, it’s not enough to believe, you must do the works of charity/ Love.
The scripture warns that even a great faith can be had, enough to move mountains, but without Love it amounts to nothing.

So Love people as well, don’t think you don’t need it.

That’s why Germany turned into a hellhole with the change in theology. Luther lamented the total lack of charity under his regime, charity that was greatly abundant under Catholicism however. Luther organised the first of what would become the corrupting welfare state, where people had to be taxed by force for what was given voluntarily by charity under Catholicism.

The main departure of Protestantism from scripture is it abandoned the supremacy of Love by foisting the new “ Faith Alone “ doctrine and we know that the greatest of these is Love.

 

Good works won't save you. But if God has saved you, your new birth will produce works of love. = Give God the glory, not yourself.

 

There is no salvation without Love guys, Love is works. This is why I constantly warn people not to fall for the latest propaganda.

You must serve, to serve is to Love. “Well done good and faithful servant “

To believe is the outgrowth Faith, good works is the outgrowth of Love. Both are by God’s Grace.

You could have faith to move mountains but if you don’t do the works of Love you amount to nothing. Scripture warns people.

Faith and Love together guys, just don’t forget, it’s really important.

It worries me that so many exclude Love.

 

There are plenty who believe Jesus is the Lord, but they don’t Love. Are they saved?

That is why the scripture warns people that they can have faith to move mountains but if they don’t have Love they amount to nothing.

Faith and Love have to be together for salvation, not faith alone.

Ask for the grace to Love, it’s not enough to believe, you must Love. It important guys, pray on it and think on it, and ask Jesus to show you about Love.

 

There seems to be a bit of talking past here. Being saved by faith and having faith to do good works are not the same.

Similarly, we were not saved because we loved God, but because he loved us. The love that comes after, the love which we express, is a product of salvation, that is, it does not lead to salvation but salvation leads to it.

1 John 4:7-10

7Beloved, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

9This is how God’s love was revealed among us: God sent His one and onlyc Son into the world, so that we might live through Him. 10And love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as the atoning sacrificed for our sins.

 

That’s right, you have to do the believe part, which is Faith in Jesus, then you have to do the Love part is to do good works for neighbours.

So many have faith to move mountains, but just don’t do the good works of Love. They are like clashing symbols that amount to nothing, and it’s a real worry to me. You’ve got to really see Jesus in others and not ignore the homeless dude and walk by. Talk to the dude, put yourself in danger.
Pray for greater Love. You sound like you have the faith part down, now concentrate on the Love part, doing God’s Will in helping others inspired by Love.

In a mysterious way, what we do for others we do for Jesus. “ What you did for the least of these, you did for me “ The doing in Love is just as important as the believing in Faith.

 

You’ve got to have Faith and Love together, not just faith alone.

Believe in Faith, but do in Love.

 

You have almost got it mate.

Belief is Faith by grace, good works is Love by grace.

Love and Faith together is essential for salvation.

I’m glad people are seeing that Love can’t be separated from Faith, Love is a must have as well, not just faith on its own.

 

Who says our works saved us? This is called a STRAWMAN. Find me one person in this board who thinks their works save them.

If someone in the Catholic church claims to save themselves thats grounds for excommunication.


When it comes to MOTIVE, why God saves anyone. Yeah there is no boasting, works can't do it.

When it comes to WHY GOD SAVES. Its because a person is a sinner. Paul will even say I was shown mercy because I was ignorant. Not because he had faith, not because anything he did.

When Jesus was asked how one is saved, The answer he approved is LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR.

"You are saved by faith alone" <---- Things Jesus never said.

Luke 10
25And behold, a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this and you will live.” 29But wanting to justify himself, he said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

Now anyone who actually has faith in Jesus why would they SECOND GUESS Jesus' OWN ANSWER to the question?

Why would anyone seek a loop hole to this HOLY PERFECT ANSWER?

Jesus FLAT OUT says what the answer is. If anyone has to to look for some way to undermine ........Faith? no kidding how about have some faith in Jesus.


Its like being told TRUST JESUS is the most important thing......but don't trust what he actually says.

Its like swearing the driving manual will save you but ignore the stop signs the manual says to follow.


WHAT people teach ABOUT JESUS VERSUS what JESUS actually teaches.

 

No, this is what Cathode and Catholics believe: as I posted above, the Bible teaches that "works" (love) are a necessary condition but not a sufficient condition for salvation; that is, grace saves, not love; but love is essential. Your comment reminds me of a Baptist evangelist who preached in our city's largest Baptist church. During his altar call he bellowed: if you walk down this aisle and accept Christ as your Savior and really mean it, you can curse God to His face when you walk out that door and you'll still be saved!" As I mentioned, in both Hebrew (amunah) and Greek (pistis), the word translated "faith" also means "faithfulness!"

 

Belief being the evidence of Faith, and Good works being the evidence of Love.

People try to separate them and say you only need faith alone, it just ends in the clashing cymbal thing.

People will have faith enough to prophecy and do miracles “ move mountains, but have no Love and be condemned.

“
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”

Jesus judges people by their Love, their good works.

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

On what basis did they think they could have salvation, Faith Alone.

You must not only believe in Faith, you must have the evidence of Love, good works.

There has been this worrying trend recently of people saying that all you need is faith alone, and I know that Love is absolutely essential as well. So don’t believe the propaganda people but believe in Faith and act in Love together.

 

We receive the free gift of Faith by God’s Grace, and we receive the free gift of Love by God’s Grace. We must believe in Faith and do good works inspired by Love. Works without Love mean nothing, works inspired by Love is meritorious because they are God’s work through us.

We must cooperate with Grace to Love, not just the grace to believe in Faith.

That is why those with faith enough to do miracles and drive out demons were still condemned by the Lord, they did not have the evidence of Love, good works.

People were condemned even when they had the faith to do miracles and drive out demons and acknowledge Jesus as Lord, because they lacked Love which is evidenced by good works. Huge Faith to even perform miracles, but lacked evidence of Love, good works.

Faith and Love are both essential for salvation, don’t let people trick you about it.

You cooperate with grace to believe in Faith, but you also must cooperate with grace to Love and do good works.

Many believers will have great faith enough to drive out demons and perform miracles, but will be condemned because of their lack of Love evidenced by little to no good works.

21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

It is not enough to believe in God, you must express God, Love by good works. God is The Eternal Good Work, Love.

Protestants misunderstand Love, Love must have Supremacy, of Faith, Hope and Love, Love is the greatest.